Hey ,I cant wait to get back to work and give AArogant Airlines 110 Percent
pull together win together
Yeeeehaaaaawwww
You made the paper, Congrats.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13590883.htm
AA Management Bonuses - Despite More Losses
- Thread starter TWU informer
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You made the paper, Congrats.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13590883.htm
Congrats to Time for Change.
The same article this morning mentioned this additional outrage:
Where's the outrage? AA clearly can't afford to pay out $568 million to the rank and file, can it? Especially with no profits, right?
Even though these were agreed-upon in 2003, the only reasonable course of action is for the rank and file to agree to cancel or at least defer this potential payout. Right?
After all, if payouts determined by stock price are outrageous when paid to management, aren't stock-price-determined payouts to rank and file employees similarly outrageous?
What I'm asking is whether there's real principled objection to management's payout or whether this simply boils down to "Management makes too much money?"
To their credit, several posters to this thread have essentially admitted that their view is the latter. Kudos to them for their honesty.
The same article this morning mentioned this additional outrage:
Where's the outrage? AA clearly can't afford to pay out $568 million to the rank and file, can it? Especially with no profits, right?
Even though these were agreed-upon in 2003, the only reasonable course of action is for the rank and file to agree to cancel or at least defer this potential payout. Right?
After all, if payouts determined by stock price are outrageous when paid to management, aren't stock-price-determined payouts to rank and file employees similarly outrageous?
What I'm asking is whether there's real principled objection to management's payout or whether this simply boils down to "Management makes too much money?"
To their credit, several posters to this thread have essentially admitted that their view is the latter. Kudos to them for their honesty.
Is AA buying these options back when we decide to excercise them?
Are these bonuses stock options or cash payouts like the news articles are saying?
FWAAA,
Excuse my ignorance in this subject but doesn't the sale of an employees stock option go on the open market and is technically sold to any buyer. I'm a bit confused on how the company takes a hit except for the higher float of stock on the market. If I recall correctly, didn't AA already take a charge against future earnings back in 2003 for the options?
Excuse my ignorance in this subject but doesn't the sale of an employees stock option go on the open market and is technically sold to any buyer. I'm a bit confused on how the company takes a hit except for the higher float of stock on the market. If I recall correctly, didn't AA already take a charge against future earnings back in 2003 for the options?
Where is the superior performance. 600 million loss=superior job performance. I know it goes by stock performance not job excellence.
So can we safely say that stock price will keep us out of bankruptcy and continual losses aren't really a factor?
I'll bite....When you're tripping over the layers of management we have here with some high levels assigned to passing out radios or lockers as their only function, it's more of too much management then salaries. If they cut a true 50% of management and the remainder took the same cuts as the union workforce, holidays, vc, sick time included, and based their bonuses on the companies profitability such as the rest of the workers profit sharing plan is, I would have little or no objections. But basing a bonus on a stock comparison when the rest of the industry is going BK is ridiculous. In theory, all AA management had to do is get the weAAk unions to buy off on the draconian concessions, which all but forced the other airlines in BK, and they walk off with a wad of cash on the backs of the workers. So to answer your, YES.
OP
TWU informer
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Yeah, and there is a shop pool going around the Tulsa Base taking odds on Jim Little and the TWU's ability to stop these bonuses. Meanwhile the pulse line is set to begin in Tulsa real soon which is the already committed turntime on MD-80 C-Checks. Any bets on managements ability to meet this challenge with a workforce full of angry hornets? Stop by dock 3-C and place your bet on the shop pool. I have already heard the pulse line will fail, and it has not even started yet!
"Strong Statements on TWUATD" whoaaaaaaa
"TWU spearheaded recall of Carty" whooooaaaa :huh:
"TWU calls for a meeting to discuss" whoooaaaa B)
Those are almost as powerful as the t-shirt with "will strike if provoked" or maybe equal to the t-shirt with "An Injustice to One - Is An Injustice To All"
Rolling on floor laughing my ass off. HEY CIO, didn't anyone tell you? The AMFA drive at AA is over!!!!!
Your past practice of excuse/blame AMFA for everything game is over now, it is the TWU and ACCOUNTABILITY....er,uh ARE THOSE TWO EVEN POSSIBLE WITH THIS UNION?
B
B.O.B.
Guest
This was an email I received today:
On 05Jan06, there was a PLI (Partnership in Leadership Initiative) meeting at AA about management compensation attended by other unions on the property and the APFA. A delegation from the APFA attended a meeting at the Company prior to the public announcement. In attendance were Brett Durkin (APFA Vice President). Jena Hopkins, Michael Parker and Becky Kroll. Our delegation asked for additional numbers from the Company to further analyze this situation; those figures have been promised, but not yet provided to my knowledge. Tommie Hutto-Blake has also requested those numbers.
First, this particular bonus plan has been in place at AMR since 1988. It was extended in 1998 by the AMR Board of Directors, and modified in 2003. The plan covers almost 1,000 of our management employees. Here is the approximate breakdown:
All Officers (except Gerard Arpey) – 43*
100% of all Level 8 Mgrs – 175
60% of all Level 6 Mgrs – 300
40% of all Level 5 Mgrs – 400
*Gerard Arpey is NOT part of this plan. It was offered to him when he was hired, but Gerard declined to participate in it.
This particular plan covers the period from 2003 to 2005. The units or “performance units†were awarded to eligible management in 2003, but they are not eligible to cash-out their units until 19Apr06. The final cash-out figures will be based on the AMR stock price at the close of business on 19Apr06, and then each unit paid out at 175% of that price.
AA considers this a long-term, at-risk piece of the management compensation package. The eligibility of management was based on their performance in 2003, and they must wait until 2006 to collect. This is a cash payout – not paid in stock, or stock options.
The plan payout is based on the TSR (Total Shareholder Return, basically based on the stock price) one of several formulae used in corporate America. The other possible formulae that AMR could have used are: ROI (Return on Investments); Cash Flow Return on Gross Assets; and, Operating Cash Flow to Net Assets.
This plan has had consistent payouts since 1996 (from the 1993 results), except for the year of 2003. The formula used requires that AA be judged by other “comparatorsâ€. Comparators used over the years have been: CO, DL, NW, Southwest, UA, US & jetBlue. The percentage of payout above and beyond the stock price is determined by where AA ranks among its comparators. For 2003, AA ranked as #1 (168.9% TSR, based on the excellent performance of the stock over the past several months), CO was #2 (at 110.05%) and Southwest at #3 (9.7%). AA’s original comparators for 2003 also included UA, DL & NW, but those carriers were dropped due to the filing of bankruptcies, which dropped them from being traded on the national exchanges. Based on the rankings, the #1 spot has a payout of 175% of the stock price (which is what the AA eligible management is receiving in April 2006) and 0% for the #6 spot. As long as the company doesn’t rank last, the payouts can be anywhere from 50% to 175% of the total units awarded back in 2003.
That’s all from Brett’s report. Now for the “***** Editorial Commentsâ€:
The total amount of the payout is staggering. Individuals could receive from $2,000 up to $1.7 million (based on a recent stock price) – and all at a time when AA is still operating in the red! There have been two “But The Employees Are Getting Something, Too!†rhetorical comments that the Company has been quick to note in the media.
First, millions of dollars in stock options have been or will be received by the various employee groups, as partial compensation for the restructuring agreements. But these are stock options that may or may not ever be exercised. If you were one of the people who used the first third or second third of your options to buy stock, you know that you ended up with a lot less (I think my 90+ shares ended up producing about 26 shares of stock after fees and taxes).
Second, the AIP quarterly payouts have been cited as sharing with the employees. True but…
…WAIT A MINUTE!!! The AIP is based on performance; the bonus plan has NO TIES TO CURRENT PERFORMANCE – ONLY WHAT THE STOCK TRADED AT THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY DESIGNATED!
AND…the payout is not in stock, or stock options. IT IS A CASH PAYOUT, again at a time when AA/AMR is cutting across the board to save a few thousand or a few hundred thousand dollars.
So, why is our stock so high? Partly because the price of oil and the crack spread came down. Partly because people are traveling.
But, LARGELY because of the sacrifices by the employees of this company and the ways in which labor has been tirelessly working with management to keep our planes in the air. Wall Street sees this and sees AA as a success story when so many other carriers have filed for bankruptcy. It was only after the APFA representatives accompanied the Company to Wall Street that the bonds were issued to complete the work on the new JFK Terminal, huge evidence of the boost in the confidence of investors. Why? Because they saw labor working hard to keep out of bankruptcy.
Now, after all our hard work over the past years, the Company is going to follow through on a compensation plan that is quite legal, but most certainly disgusting. It will be interesting to see how the managers involved will react – how many will follow the lead of Gerard Arpey and say “NO!†And, will Gerard put any pressure upon those in the plan to put that money back into the Company.
On 05Jan06, there was a PLI (Partnership in Leadership Initiative) meeting at AA about management compensation attended by other unions on the property and the APFA. A delegation from the APFA attended a meeting at the Company prior to the public announcement. In attendance were Brett Durkin (APFA Vice President). Jena Hopkins, Michael Parker and Becky Kroll. Our delegation asked for additional numbers from the Company to further analyze this situation; those figures have been promised, but not yet provided to my knowledge. Tommie Hutto-Blake has also requested those numbers.
First, this particular bonus plan has been in place at AMR since 1988. It was extended in 1998 by the AMR Board of Directors, and modified in 2003. The plan covers almost 1,000 of our management employees. Here is the approximate breakdown:
All Officers (except Gerard Arpey) – 43*
100% of all Level 8 Mgrs – 175
60% of all Level 6 Mgrs – 300
40% of all Level 5 Mgrs – 400
*Gerard Arpey is NOT part of this plan. It was offered to him when he was hired, but Gerard declined to participate in it.
This particular plan covers the period from 2003 to 2005. The units or “performance units†were awarded to eligible management in 2003, but they are not eligible to cash-out their units until 19Apr06. The final cash-out figures will be based on the AMR stock price at the close of business on 19Apr06, and then each unit paid out at 175% of that price.
AA considers this a long-term, at-risk piece of the management compensation package. The eligibility of management was based on their performance in 2003, and they must wait until 2006 to collect. This is a cash payout – not paid in stock, or stock options.
The plan payout is based on the TSR (Total Shareholder Return, basically based on the stock price) one of several formulae used in corporate America. The other possible formulae that AMR could have used are: ROI (Return on Investments); Cash Flow Return on Gross Assets; and, Operating Cash Flow to Net Assets.
This plan has had consistent payouts since 1996 (from the 1993 results), except for the year of 2003. The formula used requires that AA be judged by other “comparatorsâ€. Comparators used over the years have been: CO, DL, NW, Southwest, UA, US & jetBlue. The percentage of payout above and beyond the stock price is determined by where AA ranks among its comparators. For 2003, AA ranked as #1 (168.9% TSR, based on the excellent performance of the stock over the past several months), CO was #2 (at 110.05%) and Southwest at #3 (9.7%). AA’s original comparators for 2003 also included UA, DL & NW, but those carriers were dropped due to the filing of bankruptcies, which dropped them from being traded on the national exchanges. Based on the rankings, the #1 spot has a payout of 175% of the stock price (which is what the AA eligible management is receiving in April 2006) and 0% for the #6 spot. As long as the company doesn’t rank last, the payouts can be anywhere from 50% to 175% of the total units awarded back in 2003.
That’s all from Brett’s report. Now for the “***** Editorial Commentsâ€:
The total amount of the payout is staggering. Individuals could receive from $2,000 up to $1.7 million (based on a recent stock price) – and all at a time when AA is still operating in the red! There have been two “But The Employees Are Getting Something, Too!†rhetorical comments that the Company has been quick to note in the media.
First, millions of dollars in stock options have been or will be received by the various employee groups, as partial compensation for the restructuring agreements. But these are stock options that may or may not ever be exercised. If you were one of the people who used the first third or second third of your options to buy stock, you know that you ended up with a lot less (I think my 90+ shares ended up producing about 26 shares of stock after fees and taxes).
Second, the AIP quarterly payouts have been cited as sharing with the employees. True but…
…WAIT A MINUTE!!! The AIP is based on performance; the bonus plan has NO TIES TO CURRENT PERFORMANCE – ONLY WHAT THE STOCK TRADED AT THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY DESIGNATED!
AND…the payout is not in stock, or stock options. IT IS A CASH PAYOUT, again at a time when AA/AMR is cutting across the board to save a few thousand or a few hundred thousand dollars.
So, why is our stock so high? Partly because the price of oil and the crack spread came down. Partly because people are traveling.
But, LARGELY because of the sacrifices by the employees of this company and the ways in which labor has been tirelessly working with management to keep our planes in the air. Wall Street sees this and sees AA as a success story when so many other carriers have filed for bankruptcy. It was only after the APFA representatives accompanied the Company to Wall Street that the bonds were issued to complete the work on the new JFK Terminal, huge evidence of the boost in the confidence of investors. Why? Because they saw labor working hard to keep out of bankruptcy.
Now, after all our hard work over the past years, the Company is going to follow through on a compensation plan that is quite legal, but most certainly disgusting. It will be interesting to see how the managers involved will react – how many will follow the lead of Gerard Arpey and say “NO!†And, will Gerard put any pressure upon those in the plan to put that money back into the Company.
OP
TWU informer
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- Nov 4, 2003
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B.O.B.
So now the choice is....
Who do they screw and piss off?
The management with the agreement that requires them to receive millons? Can you say Legal Battle?
Or the worker-bees who are about the start a new battle and will never allow this without some very negative response? Can you say Management/Labor Harmony over?
Seems like someone have got themselves backed into a no win situation here!
So now the choice is....
Who do they screw and piss off?
The management with the agreement that requires them to receive millons? Can you say Legal Battle?
Or the worker-bees who are about the start a new battle and will never allow this without some very negative response? Can you say Management/Labor Harmony over?
Seems like someone have got themselves backed into a no win situation here!
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
The twu couldnt spearhead a pimple on my arse
Those millions of stock options awarded to the twu employees are a joke.
Those options dont even come close to covering the 20K in concessions the twu gave away so generously.
What the hell does AMFA or any of the bankrupt carriers have to do with the corporate greed at AArogant Airlines.
You condone this corporate greed ???
100 shares of your options will get you 500 dollars big Fn deal.
I think you should go and put your panties on and get back to work.
You keep giving they keep taking
B
B.O.B.
Guest
B.O.B.
So now the choice is....
Who do they screw and piss off?
The management with the agreement that requires them to receive millons? Can you say Legal Battle?
Or the worker-bees who are about the start a new battle and will never allow this without so negative response? Can you say Management/Labor Harmony over?
Seems like someone have got themselves backed into a no win situation here!
Yeah remember what they told us... "Pull together, win together!"
B***s**t, excuse me. Sorry, I had to sneeze.
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
The twu we have to have a sit down and discuss our cut letter
:blink:VIA FACSIMILE & US MAIL
Mr. Gerard Arpey
President & CEO
American Airlines, Inc.
P.O. Box 61616 MD 5621
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9616
Dear Mr. Arpey: Last Friday the TWU, APA, and APFA were informed by Vice President Jeff Brundage that the Company might pay bonuses to approximately 1000 managers based on the price AMR stock is trading at on or around April 18, 2006. I want to make clear to you that the TWU opposes the payment of any such bonuses while the Company is still losing money and so long as its hourly employees are still working under restructured agreements. Obviously, the recent uptick in AMR stock is positive and indicates Wall Street’s confidence. However, I strongly believe that this increase in share price is largely due to the immense effort made by the hourly workforce to cooperate and continue working together in enhancing productivity and limiting waste. This effort was undertaken to secure jobs, retirement, and health care, not to make these bonuses available to certain managers. Notwithstanding the progress made on these objectives, every presentation made by the Company to its employees or their representatives over the past few months clearly establishes that its future is still jeopardized by the price of fuel and the threat of low wage competitors, often operating under the protection of bankruptcy. Under these circumstances, squandering resources on a poorly designed plan that provides large bonuses for managers is not only grossly inequitable, it makes no business sense. Based on the concerns I have expressed above, I would formally request a meeting at your earliest possible time to discuss this matter.
Sincerely,
James C. Little
Director Air Transport Division
Intl. Executive Vice President
JCL:cjd opeiu-153 afl-cio
C: Mike O'Brien ATD Staff Gary Yingst Jim Weel Jeff Brundage AA-TWU Presidents
INTERNATIONAL HEADQUARTERS * 1700 Broadway, Second Floor, New York, NY 10019-5905 * Phone: (212) 259-4900
:blink:VIA FACSIMILE & US MAIL
Mr. Gerard Arpey
President & CEO
American Airlines, Inc.
P.O. Box 61616 MD 5621
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9616
Dear Mr. Arpey: Last Friday the TWU, APA, and APFA were informed by Vice President Jeff Brundage that the Company might pay bonuses to approximately 1000 managers based on the price AMR stock is trading at on or around April 18, 2006. I want to make clear to you that the TWU opposes the payment of any such bonuses while the Company is still losing money and so long as its hourly employees are still working under restructured agreements. Obviously, the recent uptick in AMR stock is positive and indicates Wall Street’s confidence. However, I strongly believe that this increase in share price is largely due to the immense effort made by the hourly workforce to cooperate and continue working together in enhancing productivity and limiting waste. This effort was undertaken to secure jobs, retirement, and health care, not to make these bonuses available to certain managers. Notwithstanding the progress made on these objectives, every presentation made by the Company to its employees or their representatives over the past few months clearly establishes that its future is still jeopardized by the price of fuel and the threat of low wage competitors, often operating under the protection of bankruptcy. Under these circumstances, squandering resources on a poorly designed plan that provides large bonuses for managers is not only grossly inequitable, it makes no business sense. Based on the concerns I have expressed above, I would formally request a meeting at your earliest possible time to discuss this matter.
Sincerely,
James C. Little
Director Air Transport Division
Intl. Executive Vice President
JCL:cjd opeiu-153 afl-cio
C: Mike O'Brien ATD Staff Gary Yingst Jim Weel Jeff Brundage AA-TWU Presidents
INTERNATIONAL HEADQUARTERS * 1700 Broadway, Second Floor, New York, NY 10019-5905 * Phone: (212) 259-4900
Let's see, now. Management finds a way to reward itself with bonusses even though we are still losing money.
And, you are surprised because.....????
you will see now. management found a way to INVEST (not reward its self) in march/april of 2004 when the stock was at an all time low (below $2 a share) and INVESTED by getting a certain ammount of shares per person and over the past 2 years the stock as risen about 20 bucks a share therefore resulting in an economical gain through INVESTMENT not by stealing money from its little revenue it is making...if you would like to point fingers and be upset point them at yourself for not being smart and INVESTING...
B
B.O.B.
Guest
Oh, brAAvo, brAAvo! What a pathetic post.
Do you share in the "pull together, win together?" B***s**t, excuse me I had to sneeze. With that post, I would have to say you don't. But, it's OK for us to suck it up and have co-workers on the street, giving up the homes they bought, barely hanging on and being able to put food on the table. But, that's all part of the "win together, pull together." B***s**t, excuse me I had to sneeze. We have done our share as employees and it's time for management to quit rewarding themselves with millions and start practicing what they preach! :angry:
Do you even work for an airline?
OP
TWU informer
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Could you transalate that diatribe please. I do not get your meaning at all. You sound...
how do you say it?
UNINFORMED
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