AA is up to something?

[Bob Owens]

You forgot another way to get on as a AMT at AA, you work the ramp, get your licenses, then just transfer into maint, because you are a member of the TWU and an employee. No experiance necessary.

Like I said how well is that working out for them? They already exhausted that list and it takes more to become a mechanic, or at least a proficient one, than just showing up at the door with your tickets. The company made a huge mistake by treating and expecting the same performance from these people as they would a seasoned mechanic, over time they will be fine but you cant run them at full speed right out of the box and the company has to at the very least provide training before turning them loose, they should be handled like Junior Mechanics even though we dont have that classification anymore, until they get a chance to learn what they are doing.

We used to have a Junior Mechanic program for the upgrades, but they did away with that for some reason leaving no avenue within the company for these guys to upgrade, they had to work outside the company to get the experience needed. So basically they had to do like the rest of us, get their experience elsewhere, I was against the 29D settlement waiving the experience requirement, I felt it was another huge concession to the company in the middle of negotiations, the settlement was voted on but it was unexpectedly thrust upon the full Presidents Council, not just the AMT Presidents and given a hard sell by Gless and other International officials. We were basically told they could do it anyway, with or without our concurrance, my position was if that was so, let them do it without our concurrance. Others may have viewed it as providing members an avenue to upgrade, thus fulfilling their obligation to those members looking to upgrade. Both have merit, but my view, and I didnt have any members who benefitted from it so for me the decision was less complicated, was that barriers to entry are not only good for all current AMTs but good for those who make it over those barriers as well.

When you adjust our pay for inflation our current pay levels for a topped out mechanic are less than what a Junior mechanic used to make. Basically the company made us all Junior Mechanics, pay wise.

The bright side to all this is that so many have left and continue to leave the industry and so few are coming in it presents many problems for the company in negotiations and the industry in general.
1, It makes it difficult for the company to maintain staff
2. It increases our leverage to negotiate higher wages and better working condition absent NMB interference
3. It increases what 3P providors charge our competitors. With fewer people investing in becoming an A&P those shops will not find newly minted A&Ps willing to work for poor wages just to get experience. They have to hire mechanics who have no investment in Aviation and are more willing to jump into other better paying industries and are not willing to work for poor wages as a means to get experience so they can get on with an airline, so they have to pay more than they are accustomed to. This drives up labor and opertaing costs at 3p providors due to churn. Like I said it takes a while to become a proficient mechanic, by the time they are making them money they are gone.
4. It reduces the capacity of 3P providors, meaning that AA's threats to outsource are less feasable. If they are having trouble maintaining staff with the work they have how can they take on more work?
5. It reduces the FAAs ability to address the safety isue of fatigue. If mechanics were limited to the same duty time regs as pilots thousands of aircraft would likely be grounded. The FAA recently faced a lot of opposition when they tried to reinterpret mechanic duty times, our Union took a position aligning themselves with the carriers, I dont recall ever being asked for input, (restricting duty times can only put more constraints on the supply of labor, that increases our ability to increase compensation, but it also reduces our opportunity to make up for lost compensation by working more hours, to me working more hours, thus increasing the amount of labor available, to make up for decreased wages that resulted from a surpluss of labor, is like a dog chasing its tail, we at best, despite all the effort, end up in the same place we started, restricting duty times would provide a worthwhile long term benefit but a severe short term hit to our finances)

Right now wages in other segments of Aviation, corporate, general etc, are rising faster than commercial aviation, the only thing holding mechanics back is the RLA, our compliance with its interference and our overly cautious demeanor. Sooner or later the rebellion will take place, the RLA ties the hands of the unions but nothing prevents mechanics from using the tools they have at their disposal to show how they feel, and there is no benefit to waiting. Patience can be more of a vice than virtue at times.

 

[telebender1956]

We have not had any support from Pine ST. at TULE since the late Ed Wilson. He was not afraid to take job actions against management when necessary and as a new AA employee I was involved in a couple in the late 1980's. He was the last Union President we had at Local 514 who had a "Union mindset" instead of being sold out to the Company. The current 514 leadership is allowing management to get away with major work rule changes without any fight at all. The current TULE management does not have a clue how to manage Heavy and Light C Checks for the B737 Fleet. We have a B737 parked at TUL right now because it is out of time[needs a Heavy C] and we do not have a Dock set up with the available people or equipment and docking to perform a Heavy C.[The present B737 Lines are full to capacity with Light C, Mods/AD, and Heavy C's.]
We are presently having to perform major maintenance on B737's without wing or tail docks. This fact ALONE SLOWS DOWN the maintenance process and adds time to the Checks. The Docking should have built or purchased 2 years ago to have available now to match the CURRENT workload.But hey, someone saved a lot of money in "their budget" 2 years ago and got a large bonus for that and now it is really costing the Company.
I could give example after example of how management has done things over the last 10 years to SLOW DOWN the Maintenance process instead of speed it up.

 

[Bob Owens]

We have not had any support from Pine ST. at TULE since the late Ed Wilson. He was not afraid to take job actions against management when necessary and as a new AA employee I was involved in a couple in the late 1980's. He was the last Union President we had at Local 514 who had a "Union mindset" instead of being sold out to the Company. The current 514 leadership is allowing management to get away with major work rule changes without any fight at all. The current TULE management does not have a clue how to manage Heavy and Light C Checks for the B737 Fleet. We have a B737 parked at TUL right now because it is out of time[needs a Heavy C] and we do not have a Dock set up with the available people or equipment and docking to perform a Heavy C.[The present B737 Lines are full to capacity with Light C, Mods/AD, and Heavy C's.]
We are presently having to perform major maintenance on B737's without wing or tail docks. This fact ALONE SLOWS DOWN the maintenance process and adds time to the Checks. The Docking should have built or purchased 2 years ago to have available now to match the CURRENT workload.But hey, someone saved a lot of money in "their budget" 2 years ago and got a large bonus for that and now it is really costing the Company.
I could give example after example of how management has done things over the last 10 years to SLOW DOWN the Maintenance process instead of speed it up.

My understanding and recollections are that "King Ed" ushered in most of the concessions that were brought in during that time as well, he was not thought of very highly on the line. IIRC we rejected the 89 deal, Ed got something for Tulsa, and then pushed the deal through, I think we went to Flex benifits and Pre-funding on that deal.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Hey! The added capacity at MCIE was working for AA. Not to take away any of TUL's work, but supplement it with all the extra work TULE couldn't handle! ------- It was working quit well, for the time it was in use! But AA in all it's wisdom, decided it was a luxury they couldn't afford. So now they're paying the price like the man said! ------- Another brilliant call!!! But to this day, I feel it was just as much a political one, as an economical one!!!

 

[Buck]

We have not had any support from Pine ST. at TULE since the late Ed Wilson. He was not afraid to take job actions against management when necessary and as a new AA employee I was involved in a couple in the late 1980's. He was the last Union President we had at Local 514 who had a "Union mindset" instead of being sold out to the Company. The current 514 leadership is allowing management to get away with major work rule changes without any fight at all. The current TULE management does not have a clue how to manage Heavy and Light C Checks for the B737 Fleet. We have a B737 parked at TUL right now because it is out of time[needs a Heavy C] and we do not have a Dock set up with the available people or equipment and docking to perform a Heavy C.The present B737 Lines are full to capacity with Light C, Mods/AD, and Heavy C's.
We are presently having to perform major maintenance on B737's without wing or tail docks. This fact ALONE SLOWS DOWN the maintenance process and adds time to the Checks. The Docking should have built or purchased 2 years ago to have available now to match the CURRENT workload.But hey, someone saved a lot of money in "their budget" 2 years ago and got a large bonus for that and now it is really costing the Company.
I could give example after example of how management has done things over the last 10 years to SLOW DOWN the Maintenance process instead of speed it up.

The Retro Mods have been shut down until the LC's yield improves. We are working out of JLG's, for those area's where they are needed. There are a few experienced mechanics who have replaced those who have left, due to 7-day coverage. However, the majority of the mechanics are inexperienced. They are arriving from HOC to a world that is foreign to them. But they are willing to learn.

 

[strikeforce]

The Retro Mods have been shut down until the LC's yield improves. We are working out of JLG's, for those area's where they are needed. There are a few experienced mechanics who have replaced those who have left, due to 7-day coverage. However, the majority of the mechanics are inexperienced. They are arriving from HOC to a world that is foreign to them. But they are willing to learn.

Just another management disaster! I love it!!!! Let's keep rewarding Arpey & Co. for running this company into the ground! ....and keep giving AA concessions!!

 

[Birdman]

We have a B737 parked at TUL right now because it is out of time[needs a Heavy C] and we do not have a Dock set up with the available people or equipment and docking to perform a Heavy C.[The present B737 Lines are full to capacity with Light C, Mods/AD, and Heavy C's.]

I'm sure your not saying that docks 1A and 1B are not equipped and staffed to do any and all checks. As you say, the problem is that the yield is expiring so rapidly, due to extended dock visits, that the heavy's are just going to have to wait till the lights can be caught up. While the compAAny would never admit it I believe the worker bees are not taking ownership of the stringent schedules that are being put on paper due to low morale and discontent with the extended negotiations process. So, it appears the chess match will continue as neither side has achieved a tactical advantage.

 

[telebender1956]

My understanding and recollections are that "King Ed" ushered in most of the concessions that were brought in during that time as well, he was not thought of very highly on the line. IIRC we rejected the 89 deal, Ed got something for Tulsa, and then pushed the deal through, I think we went to Flex benifits and Pre-funding on that deal.

Yeah,but it was Marion Findlay who ushered in the SRP Program in the 1995 contract.Unlike Ed Wilson, the 514 leadership of recent years is unwilling to take any major job actions and appears willing to give AA even more concessions.Look at the last contract proposal that was rejected by a vote of the membership.

 

[Buck]

Yeah,but it was Marion Findlay who ushered in the SRP Program in the 1995 contract.Unlike Ed Wilson, the 514 leadership of recent years is unwilling to take any major job actions and appears willing to give AA even more concessions.Look at the last contract proposal that was rejected by a vote of the membership.

The one thing to say about"King Ed" is that he did appear on the shop floor many times. There are stories, that I witnessed and some I didn't, but all in all he did not hide in the union hall all the time. Personally he got me put into the Junior Mechanic program when I should have been a full mechanic. Hey what a dollar or two anyway?

 

[Buck]

I'm sure your not saying that docks 1A and 1B are not equipped and staffed to do any and all checks. As you say, the problem is that the yield is expiring so rapidly, due to extended dock visits, that the heavy's are just going to have to wait till the lights can be caught up. While the compAAny would never admit it I believe the worker bees are not taking ownership of the stringent schedules that are being put on paper due to low morale and discontent with the extended negotiations process. So, it appears the chess match will continue as neither side has achieved a tactical advantage.

No, docks 1A and 1B are close to be fully equipped, I believe he is speaking of a certain dock at the other end of the hangar.....

 

[jersey777]

More concessions and its LG handing them once again to the company. What happened to her saying, "This will be a zero concessions contract"? So much for that. I refuse to ratify any agreement with more concessions. We gave up way to much back in 2003 and I will not agree to ANYMORE!

Surprise surprise!

 

[jimntx]

LAX will become our gateway to Asia. So expect additional flying out
our LAX.

Timing is everything. Of course, we would decide to increase flying out of LAX about the time that major demolition and construction are to start at LAX. I was reading on another thread (in the US Airways forum, I think) that Terminals 1, 2, and 3 (the north side terminals) are all going to be demolished. The huge parking garage in the middle of the horseshoe is to be demolished and a new terminal building to replace, 1,2, and 3 built there. T1-3 have to be torn down because a new runway is being built on the north side. I imagine that traffic and parking are going to be a nightmare for passengers for the next few years--(even more so than they already are. )

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Bob is right about Ed Wilson. (He opened the door for career cleaners, fleet circus and stores to become AMTs with a junior mech. program that was a complete joke. In 1989 AA made more profit than they ever had before. Instead of seeking better pay and benefits, Wilson helped sell Flex Benefits. I also remember a 6 year contract with not much of a raise. I am thinking a total of 9% with most of it tail ended. He also signed the letter of agreement about the Christmas shutdown and went on vacation without telling anyone about it. We saw the letter with his signiture posted a couple of days later. The vote to get away from Fleet Circus where if you didn't vote it was considered a no vote. The first TA in 89 was presented at the fairgrounds pavillion and the hand outs were raining from the seats in a resounding no. Wilson came back shortly after with the same deal but without the back pay and told everyone to vote for it. I was in 727 overhaul in those days and only saw him in the hangar when he was campaigning. I was also one of the "Tulsa 14" who stood up to him at meetings. If you were hired after 1967 you were "Lucky to have a job." and he would do nothing for you. Yeah, we picketed at the terminal once and he wore a suit so he would look good on the news. But he sold us out time and time again. But to be fair he wasn't alone. John Kerrigan was the ATD director. Ed Kosetec and John Orlando did their part to spread lies. They told Dallas that Tulsa would cross picket lines. They told Tulsa that LAX and Miami would cross. It was a real group effort. Jim Little was trained by these wastes of skin and he learned well. Time and again we have been in a strong barganing position only to get boned. The company used to bring a guy named Pasecutto out of retirement to negotiate and one time when asked what the chances of getting a good contract were, Wilson answered "He could die brother." So he (and the rest of the comittee) gave up before they even went into negotiations. So when the line guys and OH guys are at odds, it works out to benefit the company and Jim Little. I figure if he can pay his secretary $140K a year, then he should be able to get us basic benefits and decent pay, but go figure. Oh yeah. When I found out about 140K for a secretary I signed a card! Hey...... Who else remembers "2.5 in 95"?

 

[Buck]

Bob is right about Ed Wilson. (He opened the door for career cleaners, fleet circus and stores to become AMTs with a junior mech. program that was a complete joke. In 1989 AA made more profit than they ever had before. Instead of seeking better pay and benefits, Wilson helped sell Flex Benefits. I also remember a 6 year contract with not much of a raise. I am thinking a total of 9% with most of it tail ended. He also signed the letter of agreement about the Christmas shutdown and went on vacation without telling anyone about it. We saw the letter with his signature posted a couple of days later. The vote to get away from Fleet Circus where if you didn't vote it was considered a no vote. The first TA in 89 was presented at the fairgrounds pavilion and the hand outs were raining from the seats in a resounding no. Wilson came back shortly after with the same deal but without the back pay and told everyone to vote for it. I was in 727 overhaul in those days and only saw him in the hangar when he was campaigning. I was also one of the "Tulsa 14" who stood up to him at meetings. If you were hired after 1967 you were "Lucky to have a job." and he would do nothing for you. Yeah, we picketed at the terminal once and he wore a suit so he would look good on the news. But he sold us out time and time again. But to be fair he wasn't alone. John Kerrigan was the ATD director. Ed Kosetec and John Orlando did their part to spread lies. They told Dallas that Tulsa would cross picket lines. They told Tulsa that LAX and Miami would cross. It was a real group effort. Jim Little was trained by these wastes of skin and he learned well. Time and again we have been in a strong bargaining position only to get boned. The company used to bring a guy named Pasecutto out of retirement to negotiate and one time when asked what the chances of getting a good contract were, Wilson answered "He could die brother." So he (and the rest of the committee) gave up before they even went into negotiations. So when the line guys and OH guys are at odds, it works out to benefit the company and Jim Little. I figure if he can pay his secretary $140K a year, then he should be able to get us basic benefits and decent pay, but go figure. Oh yeah. When I found out about 140K for a secretary I signed a card! Hey...... Who else remembers "2.5 in 95"?

I remember the "Tulsa 14". I was at some of those meetings. I said Ed Wilson would come to the floor, I did not mean other than campaigning. Every president since has campaigned but I do not believe I have ever seen them on the floor.

 

[Veritas]

Timing is everything. Of course, we would decide to increase flying out of LAX about the time that major demolition and construction are to start at LAX. I was reading on another thread (in the US Airways forum, I think) that Terminals 1, 2, and 3 (the north side terminals) are all going to be demolished. The huge parking garage in the middle of the horseshoe is to be demolished and a new terminal building to replace, 1,2, and 3 built there. T1-3 have to be torn down because a new runway is being built on the north side. I imagine that traffic and parking are going to be a nightmare for passengers for the next few years--(even more so than they already are. )

That was Mayor James Hahn LAX modernization plan. It died after he was voted out of office in 2005 (L.A. Times - Another grand plan for LAX).

These are the current projects planned for LAX.