AA has applied to delay ORD-PEK for a year

CubsFanJohn said:
Missing out on the UA ex-Pan Am Pacific Rights was a big boo-boo for AA. I believe in the Book American Eagle and the rise of Bob Crandall, he did admit that they should have been more aggressive. They did admit about the botched 1989 ORD-NRT bid....
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As legend goes, and I can't remember the guy's name right now, but it was a senior member of AA's management who went to Pan AM as their President or CEO. This guy had been promised the position of AA President as Crandall moved to CEO and relinquished the President title. He was also the brains behind the whole AAdvantage program. Seems he was a big threat to Crandall.

So Crandall pimps him (big surprise there) and takes over as both President and CEO. Then, this guy goes to Pan Am. Under no circumstances was Crandall going to get those Pan Am routes. I don't think he was even given a chance at them. It was corporate revenge at its best and it worked. Everyone knew it. Once again, Crandall's ego cost AA dearly.

I wish I could remember his name. He was a decent guy. He was on several of my flights and was always open for discussion.
 
My brother in law's company moved their manufacturing to China a few years ago, and just about all the cost savings they got from shifting manufacturing is being eaten up by shipping costs, to the extent they're rethinking whether or not to bring some of it back home. Good if they do, but that's not going to happen overnight
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So the patriotic thing for airline workers is to get paid as much as possible to drive shipping costs up!

I said a while back that by working for less we were helping to drive down shipping costs and that it hurt American workers, it seems you agree. Granted most of the increased shipping costs is surface transport driven but cheap air transport hurt American workers too. When Charles Rangel(D-NY) voted FOR MFN status for China i went there to challenge him on his vote. He wouldnt see me but he sent an aide out to discuss it. I informed the aide that this measure would cost US jobs he sid "What do you care, it will result in more flying". Needless to say that set me off. Sure but now all the people who lost their jobs to China will be putting downward pressure on everyones wages here at home!
 
eolesen said:
Flying a route for just the prestige isn't gonna cut it anymore, guys.

I just did a couple searches for business class seats to/from Japan for a trip coming up next week, and routes which normally are tight for D inventory are wide open. D is used for the CirclePacs & RTW's, and is also tied IIRC to AAdvantage upgrade award inventory.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that Walmart, Target, etc. had their buyers focusing on Mexico and closer-in countries as opposed to giving their business to Asian suppliers.

My brother in law's company moved their manufacturing to China a few years ago, and just about all the cost savings they got from shifting manufacturing is being eaten up by shipping costs, to the extent they're rethinking whether or not to bring some of it back home. Good if they do, but that's not going to happen overnight.

If other companies are thinking the same (and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be looking at this...), then there's a pretty good chance that business traffic isn't quite as good as it was two years ago on the Pacific.

Maybe they're now they're heading to Mexico & Latin America, which we know from Mark's connections is still doing pretty well.
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The 777s will go to South America or Europe, a decision hasn't been made.

Among the things that AA is considering:

-Putting them on JFK-EZE, which will be 7x weekly instead of 12x for the summer.
-Putting them on MIA-GIG, which would be reduced to 7x weekly. AA could then move the other 5x weekly frequencies to another market, like MIA-FOR. Plus, with TAM starting MIA-GIG this month, and JFK-GIG in December, this might be a good way to preserve yields.
-Keeping the 772 rotation through the summer on MIA-SCL or DFW-EZE (both are seasonal right now)

They could also fly to Europe or help open a new European route. AA is considering upgrading MIA-CDG to a 777 in 2009 because they want all Miami-Europe flying to have the standardized 3-class service.

AA will have no problem finding a good use for them, but it's anybodys guess as to where they will go at this point in time. We should know by December.
 
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MAH4546 said:
The 777s will go to South America or Europe, a decision hasn't been made.

Among the things that AA is considering:

-Putting them on JFK-EZE, which will be 7x weekly instead of 12x for the summer.
-Putting them on MIA-GIG, which would be reduced to 7x weekly. AA could then move the other 5x weekly frequencies to another market, like MIA-FOR. Plus, with TAM starting MIA-GIG this month, and JFK-GIG in December, this might be a good way to preserve yields.
-Keeping the 772 rotation through the summer on MIA-SCL or DFW-EZE (both are seasonal right now)

They could also fly to Europe or help open a new European route. AA is considering upgrading MIA-CDG to a 777 in 2009 because they want all Miami-Europe flying to have the standardized 3-class service.

AA will have no problem finding a good use for them, but it's anybodys guess as to where they will go at this point in time. We should know by December.
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Mark,
IF MIA-CDG becomes a 777 would the 767 be moved to a route e.g. MIA-BCN or DFW-MAD? I see Option 2 more likely though.
 
Bob Owens said:
So the patriotic thing for airline workers is to get paid as much as possible to drive shipping costs up!

I said a while back that by working for less we were helping to drive down shipping costs and that it hurt American workers, it seems you agree. Granted most of the increased shipping costs is surface transport driven but cheap air transport hurt American workers too.
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Which will probably result in more goods Made in America.... By robots... the unionized employees are long gone.

Mach, here are a couple articles confirming the shifts. One states it pretty well -- it's not going to return a lot of jobs, but it will definitely slow down the rate at which they're departing.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/02/bus...obal.php?page=1

http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=16612

http://www.industryweek.com/readarticle.aspx?articleid=16778
 
youbetcha said:
As legend goes, and I can't remember the guy's name right now, but it was a senior member of AA's management who went to Pan AM as their President or CEO. This guy had been promised the position of AA President as Crandall moved to CEO and relinquished the President title. He was also the brains behind the whole AAdvantage program. Seems he was a big threat to Crandall.

So Crandall pimps him (big surprise there) and takes over as both President and CEO. Then, this guy goes to Pan Am. Under no circumstances was Crandall going to get those Pan Am routes. I don't think he was even given a chance at them. It was corporate revenge at its best and it worked. Everyone knew it. Once again, Crandall's ego cost AA dearly.

I wish I could remember his name. He was a decent guy. He was on several of my flights and was always open for discussion.
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Tom Plaskett
 
Actually, Ed Acker was who sold the Pacific to UA. He worked for Braniff, left for Air Florida, and then went to Pan Am.

Tom was a "Legend" but wasn't exactly a good luck charm......

He was SVP of marketing & finance (at different times) @ AA, never president.

Left AA in 86 to go to CO as their president, got fired by Lorenzo, and wound up at Pan Am from 88 to 91 until they collapsed. His last stand was Legend, which he & McArtor created until it too collapsed.
 
The UA Asia route deal was a fast one for Pan AM. Crandall had an abrassive reputation which Pan AM didn't want to deal with.
 
I remember reading Crandall thought it was too much money at the time and passed. Later saying was a huge mistake on his part.
 
Hi-C-Camp said:
LOL, yeah they were ripping others for delaying the service saying it should be taken awAY.. lol .. i say pull the ORD-PEK from AA for delaying that service... PULLEasee
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I agree with you. Fly it or lose it. If you don't think you can fly it profitably, let someone else try.
 
I don't think DOT ever acted on the request for blanket dormancy waivers, so if someone else wanted to, I don't think they'd be prevented from applying for the routes.

Problem is nobody wants to jump into a losing market.

August traffic on the Pacific simply sucked.

NW saw -3.9% YOY change in Pacific LF's, UA -4.5% , CO -2.4% and AA -0.8% drop.

And that was during the Olympics...

NW and UA have the most exposure to China, guys. Do the math...
 
FWAAA said:
As much as I detest the decision to delay, keeping the supply of seats tighter will help keep fares up, and that's a good thing for AA.
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No, it's a 'good thing' for UA.....we're flying it! :up: :lol:
 
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