AA getting 4 gates in LAX T6.

[Glenn Quagmire]

 
 
While I don't have an intimate knowledge of all things DL and don't worship the widget like some posters on here, I'd be willing to wager that if mightly DL could be competitive in LAX, they would love to attempt to have a gateway to Asia at LAX instead of SEA.
While SEA might work with a population of approx. 4 million and economic ties to Asia, it is not L.A. (population approx. 17 million, one of the largest economic center in the world, strong ties to Asia (i.e. port of Long Beach)).

 
DL would love to have what AA has at LAX. Delta had to settle on SEA; a once thriving operation that Northwest Orient made successful. NWA had a great complement of flights, along with a maintenance base with hangar. Delta tried to mimic that at PDX with no success in the past, hence the revival of SEA post merger.
 
Delta was finally able to get to Asia through the merger. Now they are reviving the old SEA NWA operation.
 
AA has always been a king at LAX and will continue to be so.

 

[WorldTraveler]

SEA is not a step down or 2nd choice. It is far better suited as a hub to Asia than LAX from a geographic standpoint as well as the fact that there is far less competition.

As to NYC, given that DL has said they don't yet make money in NYC and yet has higher average fares than AA, it is mighty hard to believe that AA is making money, esp. since AA continues to cut routes.

But then AA mgmt. has never admitted - or at least I haven't seen it - that they lose money by the boatload flying to Asia from everywhere.

Perhaps it has to do with DL mgmt. being honest enough to admit where there weaknesses are while AA mgmt. continues to try to convince everyone that they are doing just fine when public data specifically shows where AA is not strong.

based on revenue share at LAX for the most recent quarter, AA standalone had already fallen to UA as the 2nd largest airline at LAX. Even with US, and before any hubs have been closed which is a given for AA/US, new AA's combined revenue share for the LAX local market is only 25% which is lower than AA's share in NYC where it is #3. LAX is a highly divided market and AA is simply not going to get anywhere near the size necessary to say that it dominates or is the King of LAX.

And further, AA is still the #3 legacy airline on the entire west coast. Whatever strength AA has at LAX is more than surpassed by UA and DL in other west coast cities - and again that is before any hubs have been closed by AA/US as part of the inevitable merger process.

And those who ask about DL's closed hubs obviously want to forget about all of the hubs that AA and US have closed.

Yet what sets DL and AA/US apart is that DL has maintained its share of the local market in each of those former hubs. that is not at all true about AA/US where in multiple cities, other carriers have become the largest carrier in the local carrier.

I have no problem with acknowledging that AA might grow at LAX. but the notion that they are going to dominate the market is simply a fantasy that is the same as the notion that they can build a Pacific gateway from LAX up against a number of int'l carriers.

But let's face that AA is in the bottom of the ninth and down by 3 runs so they have no choice but to fight like all get out to make it work.

yet, all the "I think I can, I think I can" can't change the fact that AA is at a structural disadvantage on the west coast and in Asia which is why it is rather certain that they will never attain their goals of either being a viable force to Asia, dominating LAX, or moving out of the last place position among network carriers - but you gotta give 'em credit for keeping on trying.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

It is far better suited as a hub to Asia than LAX from a geographic standpoint as well as the fact that there is far less competition.

That is one of the dumbest things you have ever posted here.

With that qualifier Midway Atoll, Honolulu, or maybe Sacramento makes more sense than LAX as a hub to Asia.

 

[WorldTraveler]

except that there is no local market in the middle of the Pacific while there is from SEA and there is enough connecting traffic to fill it.

You do realize that DL gets higher average fares on its SEA-HND flight and everyone of its SEA int'l flights than AA gets on either of AA's two LAX to Asia flights?

SEA is not a 2nd choice option. It is a solid market.... or else AA doesn't know how to tap into the valuable Asia revenue at LAX.

 

[wings396]

After reading thru all of this DL rhetoric, I must ask how DL gets the highest average fare just about everywhere according to you? I have just spent some time on the sidelines reading for a while, and continue to be baffled by all of your DL cheerleading. At this point, I suppose that AA, UA, and AS should just fold and hand the world over to DL since none of them stand a chance to "capture" everything positive as DL has.
We all get it, DL has the happiest and best compensated employees in the industry, the best fleet complimented by the bargain it gets on used AC, the highest profit, with the lowest amount of debt, the highest average fares everywhere, more market share than anyone anywhere, etc.
We got it, DL is the absolute best airline that ever was, and ever will be. You win, so give it a rest already and go home with your trophy.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It is right out of the annual reports and SEC filings.

And US only made AA's climb.out of the hole higher

 

[wings396]

Why are you so concerned about what AA lacks, and how much better DL is? Hell, most of the people still employed in the industry don't care half as much as a guy who isn't in the business anymore. It's just a job, with a paycheck that enables us to survive. If you think that ANY large company view's their employees as anything more than a payroll number, you are truly out of touch. I know many people who have been bitter at DL in the past as well as presently.

 

[N628AU]

SEA is not a step down or 2nd choice. It is far better suited as a hub to Asia than LAX from a geographic standpoint as well as the fact that there is far less competition.
 

And Bangor, ME is a superior location for a trans-Atlantic hub with much less (zero) competition than NYC has.  Should Delta move up there from JFK?  Zero LCC competition too.  So your point is?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Delta was finally able to get to Asia through the merger. Now they are reviving the old SEA NWA operation.

Hear! Hear!

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

SEA is not a step down or 2nd choice. It is far better suited as a hub to Asia than LAX from a geographic standpoint as well as the fact that there is far less competition.
 

I'm sorry but besides geography, I don't believe there are any other data / metrics / facts that support your hypothesis that SEA is a superior gateway to Asia compared to LAX.
 
I'm almost shocked and amazed that you as somebody that professes to know the best in commercial aviation would make such statements.  But then again I've witnessed your ability to fabricate definitions (i.e. new entrant), making qualifying statements (i.e. 'interior hubs') and lecture on several aspect of U.S. law ... ... ... only to ultimately find out you usually don't really know what you're talking about (despite your lengthy posts) or you're proven 100% wrong.

 

[eolesen]

It's interesting how DL can choose to cherry pick routes which are profitable for them in LAX, and that's entirely appropriate and OK. Yet, that's the same approach AA's taken at JFK, LGA, and DCA, and it's their death knell...

I have it on somewhat good authority that AA did indeed outmaneuver DL for the gates in LAX. DL had been working to get them, and AA dangled the ORD gates at UA.

I'm also told that the rumors about the tunnel re-opening may be just that. Apparently DL hasn't agreed to it, although it is possible that LAWA could force the issue, since they own the terminals and tunnels, not DL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

well if what DL can get in revenue flying from SEA vs. what AA can do from LAX, then yeah, SEA is a superior transpac hub.

But DL's LAX Asian operations generate far more than what AA generates from LAX so LAX is clearly not the problem.

BGR has no local market to Asia. SEA does.

DL beat AA to Asia from the west coast. Both had west coast hubs via SJC and PDX. DL bought NW, built far more at SEA than NW ever had, and even more than DL had at PDX.

AA is still talking about what they will do from LAX to Asia. DL is still building - and has the revenue to show for it.

 

[dfw gen]

well if what DL can get in revenue flying from SEA vs. what AA can do from LAX, then yeah, SEA is a superior transpac hub.

But DL's LAX Asian operations generate far more than what AA generates from LAX so LAX is clearly not the problem.

BGR has no local market to Asia. SEA does.

DL beat AA to Asia from the west coast. Both had west coast hubs via SJC and PDX. DL bought NW, built far more at SEA than NW ever had, and even more than DL had at PDX.

AA is still talking about what they will do from LAX to Asia. DL is still building - and has the revenue to show for it.

dude just go away your a damn dweeb.

 

[eolesen]

Nah, AA's not just talking. They're simply getting the gates lined up first, and announcing their actions after they have their ducks in a row.

As a side note, spent a lot of time on Virginia Avenue this week, and had lots of interesting conversation, including what's going on at LAX...

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I thought I saw you there.

There are some who are rightly concerned with the way the New AA is taking shape...especially out west.