AA getting 4 gates in LAX T6.

[WorldTraveler]

By my count, AA has the preferential use and/or rights to 34 gates (after the 4 T6 gates are reassigned).
 
UA has preferential use of 20 gates.
 
Delta has preferential use of 15 gates.
 
AA already has a size advantage in number of gates.  It will only become more apparent as AA (with LAWA's assistance) works to optimize the use of the numbers it has.

and yet AA doesn't have anywhere near the revenue advantage that those gates would suggest... probably because a good chunk of those gates are actually only good for at best CR7s and now a few CR9s.

If the gate advantage is really there, the revenue should show it. The difference in revenue between AA and UA is nowhere near proportionate to the gates.

Apparently, DL manages to push far more revenue thru each gate than AA does.

Perhaps you can calculate that number using the most recent DOT revenue statistics.

and the information regarding the ORD/LAX info makes it even less about a "contest" to try and shut DL out.

 

[robbedagain]

So only delta does it right even w the rjs. Ok got it

 

[eolesen]

It's a no brainer for AA to give up gates in Terminal 2 at ORD. They have more than enough room to consolidate between G/H/K/L.

Can't say if it is any concerted effort by either AA or UA to try and shut out DL at either ORD or LAX.

But, you also can't tell me with a straight face that DL wouldn't try to get hold of those gates at either airport if they were placed on the open market.

 

[WorldTraveler]

of course DL would fight for gates at any airport. but their hands are not tied behind their backs with a major disadvantage to AA as some here would like us to believe.

robbed,
perhaps DL realized a long time ago that it has a lot less real estate to work with at LAX so they used the largest aircraft possible, including only two class RJs, most of which are 76 seaters.

DL's average aircraft size is right at 140 seats/departure despite having a number of large RJs in the schedule. WN's average seats size is only a few seats larger despite using no RJs.

AA's average seat size is more than 10% less than DL's while UA is more than 25% smaller.

Further, DL has a 6% average fare advantage over AA and is the same as UA.

The whole purpose of real estate is to generate the most revenue.

AA will have an advantage due to its larger size but it is far from proportionately larger because DL manages to push a lot more traffic thru its gates and gets more revenue per passenger.

And, DL can upgrade nearly all of its flights to mainline aircraft. AA does not have the gate flexibility to do that. UA could do the same as well but they clearly are not focused on upgauging due to their own lack of large RJs and their mgmt.'s decision not to grow mainline.

 

[robbedagain]

those are the rjs Im referring to  but I still say the new AA is going to make LAX profitable even better   give it time   After all we do have 2 class RJs in our fleet  and MESA just signed an agreement for like 10 yrs with the CRJ-900 Next Gen aircraft to operate on behalf of AA

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't doubt that AA will remain the largest airline at LAX. The UA merger gave them a slight advantage for a short time but the transfer of these gates will help solidify AA's position.

I am simply countering the notion that this move was targeted against DL or that DL can't compete or couldn't before.

DL's strategic focus has been on the east coast. DL is now considerably larger than AA in NYC, larger than UA in terms of passengers and quickly closing the gap in terms of revenue; UA has maintained its leadership at ORD; it isn't a surprise that AA is focusing on LAX.

The world won't spin out of balance if DL is the largest airline in NYC, UA is at ORD, and AA is at LAX with each serving major markets competitive with each other from those same cities.

But in terms of the overall west coast, AA is #3 behind UA and DL with AS and DL larger than DL as well.

I said in the first part of this thread that this gate swap is a good move for AA and I congratulate them. AA will have an extraordinarily spread out operation and will still have limitations on how its gates can be used that DL and UA do not have. Thus, pure numbers of gates are not near as meaningful.

Given its relatively small gate footprint, DL has the potential to lift far more in revenue than its size relative to AA and UA in part because DL uses larger aircraft plus has grown into larger markets rather than the smaller markets which AA and UA serve with RJs and which DL will not serve given the cost to serve those gates relative to other opportunities.


again, my congratulations to AA.

 

[MetalMover]

I don't doubt that AA will remain the largest airline at LAX.

Why is that WT? Is DL going to file a lawsuit claiming their God-Given and Constitutional right to be the biggest, dominant carrier at ever airport in the USA?
Oh, wait a minute, they still have yet to file the lawsuits regarding AA's slot divestitures at LGA and DCA. Do you have any timeframe on these suits?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Why is that WT? Is DL going to file a lawsuit claiming their God-Given and Constitutional right to be the biggest, dominant carrier at ever airport in the USA?
Oh, wait a minute, they still have yet to file the lawsuits regarding AA's slot divestitures at LGA and DCA. Do you have any timeframe on these suits?

 
DLs legal dept. is very busy these days.  In addition to the lawsuit regarding the LGA and DCA slot sale, there is also an immenent lawsuit about the LUV gates which DL didn't get   I believe the prestigeous law firm of Spectator & Partners has been hired/consulted ...

 

[MetalMover]

 
DLs legal dept. is very busy these days.  In addition to the lawsuit regarding the LGA and DCA slot sale, there is also an immenent lawsuit about the LUV gates which DL didn't get   I believe the prestigeous law firm of Spectator & Partners has been hired/consulted ...

Oh yeah! I forgot about the LUV gates. I think their lawsuit will cite the preferential treatment given to a VIRGIN airline.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Why is that WT? Is DL going to file a lawsuit claiming their God-Given and Constitutional right to be the biggest, dominant carrier at ever airport in the USA?
Oh, wait a minute, they still have yet to file the lawsuits regarding AA's slot divestitures at LGA and DCA. Do you have any timeframe on these suits?

perhaps you can cite where either DL or I said that.

Or is it just your own inferiority complex kicking in?

 

[700UW]

You stated numerous times DL will file a legal challenge if they dont get anything from the LGA, and DCA slot divestitures and they dont get the gates at DL.
 
You really have the audacity to say you never said that?

 

[WorldTraveler]

No, I said they MIGHT.

Your comprehension of verbs and conditionality in the English language is breathtaking.

If you are even halfway reflective of the negotiating "power" that exists with unions, it's no wonder that airline mgmt. teams have had such an easy time shredding union contracts and imposing their own desires.

again, where is the basis for saying that DL had a God-given right to be the largest airline at any airport and get whatever gates it wanted?

And, once again, I congratulated AA for gaining the gates but in your pea-sized mind that is hellbent only on proving me wrong,, you never heard or comprehended that.

 

[737823]

You stated numerous times DL will file a legal challenge if they dont get anything from the LGA, and DCA slot divestitures and they dont get the gates at DL.
 
You really have the audacity to say you never said that?

 
Then recall those posts.
 
Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

the problem that the AA fan club really has trouble admitting is that DL pushes far more revenue thru its LAX facility.

Of course DL would like more gates at LAX but they knew that airport would be limited and is not near as suited geographically and competitively to be an Asian gateway so they are building up SEA instead where they already have a larger int'l operation than any other US int'l carrier on the western US.

DL is not trying to make LAX a hub focused on connecting significant amounts of traffic, they are using the largest possible aircraft in the markets they do serve, and are focusing on large markets. Further, DL has the capability to upgrade nearly all of its flights to mainline which would easily put them as having the largest gauge aircraft at LAX among US carriers if they even upgraded 20% of their large RJ flights to even the 717.

This whole gate grab that AA is engaged in and the AA fan club thinks is really contest between DL and AA is really about AA trying to build a large enough presence at LAX to be a major player to Asia and yet all the gates on the southside terminals of the airport aren't going to change that LAX is dominated by low cost foreign airlines and that, since no carrier is going to get enough gates to have the dominance of the int'l market that DL has at SEA and UA has at SFO, AA will be constantly chasing lower yield traffic in a region where it has a poor track record of competing and where it subsidizes its current Asian operation to the tune of several hundred million dollars per year - heavily skewed toward their LAX and ORD to Asia operations.

So, go for the gate grab and pushing lots of connecting traffic thru the airport. Other carriers, icnlduing DL have figured out that LAX is best suited as an airport focused on the local market and on the highest revenue markets where it is possible to be in the top 1 or 2 carriers in the market.

 

[700UW]

Another thread polluted by the liar and DL Cheerleader, and by the way, I will be posting the link, you sated a legal challenge many times!