AA fires WWII Vet

[Bob Owens]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/station/as-seen-on/Firing_of_WWII_Vet_Over_Anti-Gay_Slur_Stirs_Debate_New_York-116473738.html

While the company claims Rule 32 is there to prevent some workers from creating a hostile enviornment for some workers IMO its overzeolous enforcement has made it the entire workplace a hostile enviornment for everyone.

 

[Hopeful]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/station/as-seen-on/Firing_of_WWII_Vet_Over_Anti-Gay_Slur_Stirs_Debate_New_York-116473738.html

While the company claims Rule 32 is there to prevent some workers from creating a hostile enviornment for some workers IMO its overzeolous enforcement has made it the entire workplace a hostile enviornment for everyone.

I guess it's not a Rule 32 violation if you are a ramp manager beating up a fleet service clerk.

I guess the AA spokesperson forgot to mention that has happened a few times in that department and that those managers are still employed!

Ohhh,,,I know why!!!!!!!!!!!!
They beat the hell out of the clerks BUT did not use derogatory language towards them....

 

[kirkpatrick]

Zero tolerance = zero judgment.

MK

 

[damajagua]

The guy had been working for 55 years!!!! By gosh maybe
It was time to retire!!!!!

 

[FWAAA]

Fred's co-workers at JFK International Airport have started a campaign to get his job back, but the union says the termination is final. Fred says the goal was 55 years with American Airlines, but a slip of the tongue means he'll have to settle with 54 and three months.

http://www.kztv10.com/news/wwii-vet-fired-by-american-airlines/

So his co-workers want to get him reinstated but the TWU won't fight to get Archie Bunker his job back? Sounds like some of his colleagues agree that it's time he stay home all day.

He claimed that he was unaware that the term was derogatory (but he realizes it now). If he's being honest (and I don't doubt him), then it sounds to me like he's a victim of his own advancing age - years ago, he probably did know that the term was derogatory but has since forgotten, like plenty of 82 year olds I know.

Was this guy a mechanic or fleet?

 

[TWU informer]

Unfortunately each of us were given impAAct training by AA. And no doubt they have his signature as attendance to the training which included forbidden words and conduct. For some reason I get the feeling there is more to this story. If he had just zipped it when asked by management the outcome may have been different. Argueing that fighting for the country gives you the right to say what you want is not going to change company policy and enforcement. Management can now be fired for NOT acting and bringing this conduct to the attention of HR. I know of more than one that has made a mistake and each of them lost their arbitration case and their jobs.

I say it is game over and a mistake is not a viable excuse anymore.

Do I agree with this policy. NO
Do I think it is fair. NO
Does that change anything. NO
Must we all abide by the policy. YES

 

[Bob Owens]

http://www.kztv10.com/news/wwii-vet-fired-by-american-airlines/

So his co-workers want to get him reinstated but the TWU won't fight to get Archie Bunker his job back? Sounds like some of his colleagues agree that it's time he stay home all day.

He claimed that he was unaware that the term was derogatory (but he realizes it now). If he's being honest (and I don't doubt him), then it sounds to me like he's a victim of his own advancing age - years ago, he probably did know that the term was derogatory but has since forgotten, like plenty of 82 year olds I know.

Was this guy a mechanic or fleet?

The guy was Fleet and the other guy in the Video speaking in behalf was Jack Sullivan, Treasurer of TWU Local 501. So I'd say the Union is doing what they can, but a grieveance could take a long time, going public is probably a more effective means to pressure the company than the grievance process.

I'd say that in his day the term was descriptive, an accepted definition at the time learned in the schoolyard (or at home), probably knew the word "faggott" before he ever heard the term "homosexual", like the rest of us. Back then "Gay" simply meant "Happy", although its the preferred term now. From what I heard it was not directed at anybody, just a statement about how homosexuals were always in the military, that they were beside him "in the foxholes" during WWII. That it didnt matter to him. If he had gone after a coworker who was homosexual then it would be a different story but from what I heard that wasnt what happened.

The point is there are other forms of discipline other than termination, the use of a word, not even directed at anybody, is certainly not grounds for immediate dismissal. Crandall wouldnt last a week. What was the harm to the company?

Years ago the company was sued, because a worker complained of harassment that went on and on unaddressed and won a sum of money, now the company uses that as an excuse to have a Zero tolerance policy on the use of certain "words"? Its rediculous, they've gone overboard.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- So are they trying to terminate him? Or are they at least giving him the option to retire? ------- If not, I would say he may have a good case of "Age Discrimination" going for him!!! Is the punishment justified, or are they just trying to beet him out of his retirement because of his age and seniority? It could be said that AA may be in violation of it's own rule!

 

[nbmcg01]

I would think this should be handled as a training issue vs termination and perhaps some time off for a "career decision" adjustment. Diversity training at the very least.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- So are they trying to terminate him? Or are they at least giving him the option to retire? ------- If not, I would say he may have a good case of "Age Discrimination" going for him!!! Is the punishment justified, or are they just trying to beet him out of his retirement because of his age and seniority? It could be said that AA may be in violation of it's own rule!

Termination, he still gets his pension, company cant take that away, no flight benifits though, after 54 years.

 

[Interested]

Would it have handled different if he listened to the supervisor when told to shut up?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- You know, I'm sick and tired of all this "political correctness" B.S."!!! I have been known to speack my mind! And if that steps on someones toes, so be it! That's why I have been singled out to carry the "warn Status" badge on this forum!----- But this one appears to be way over the top! Commen sence has to come into play here somewhere! Let's see how all those years of paying dues bids for him now!? :unsure:

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------- You know, I'm sick and tired of all this "political correctness" B.S."!!! I have been known to speack my mind! And if that steps on someones toes, so be it! That's why I have been singled out to carry the "warn Status" badge on this forum!----- But this one appears to be way over the top! Commen sence has to come into play here somewhere! Let's see how all those years of paying dues bids for him now!? :unsure:

I couldn't agree more, MCI..
But this is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL about liability. Should an employee as so much as "HEAR" a comment that he/she finds offensive, even if NOT meant for he/she, AA doesn't excercise judgement,,,They simply TERMINATE the employee as to avoid a lawsuit.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

We had very senior crew chief at LGA get himself fired last winter for a similar incident but his comments were over the radio.He got "Fired" and got his job back after a year off.He came back 2 weeks ago.

The precedent exists,he'll be back.

 

[Vortilon]

This PC BS will come full circle, and ultimately bite the people in the A$$ that pushed for it in the first place. You know the people - always a victim types. Run to their crybaby ERG, and try an add some more repression to the workplace of what can be said or displayed and by whom. Then try and pass it off as some sort of advancement for civilization. That is diversssssssssity <_<