Is Jfk Out Of Control?

[jimntx]

My only complaint about PHL is that for those of us who walk with canes, there could be more wheelchair pushers. It's a long walk from a domestic gate to one of the International gates. And, better scheduling by the TSA. Due to a officer shortage the day I came through on the way home, the bottleneck of several international flights' passengers all having to go through a single "sniffer" machine meant I missed my connection to DFW. All PHL-DFW flights for the rest of the day were overbooked. I had to take AE to Memphis where I had to sit for 2.5 hours in an almost empty concourse. I then had to take AE from MEM to DFW. I was supposed to get back to DFW approx. 2:30pm. Got there shortly after midnight. I was flying on my ATW pos space passes, but agent in PHL said the Pos space part only applied to my scheduled flight. Since I missed that, my passes were simply treated as NRSA.

 

[jimntx]

European Gateway city. Too bad AA thinks people are going to fly to PHL from European destinations and connect with AA.

If the fares are cheaper than JFK, there will be no problem filling the airplanes. Spirit exists because of the desire for cheap flights. I believe that PHL was US Airways International hub (or gateway city which ever is correct) wasn't it? All of the infrastructure for larger airplanes was already there, and PHL is not as congested as JFK. AA's transatlantic flights from PHL are doing quite well from what I can tell trying to book non-rev travel on them..

 

[1AA]

If the fares are cheaper than JFK, there will be no problem filling the airplanes. Spirit exists because of the desire for cheap flights. I believe that PHL was US Airways International hub (or gateway city which ever is correct) wasn't it? All of the infrastructure for larger airplanes was already there, and PHL is not as congested as JFK. AA's transatlantic flights from PHL are doing quite well from what I can tell trying to book non-rev travel on them..

I was referring to other carriers flying into JFK from Europe and then connecting on AA. Now AA is thin on connections for international inbound travelers. AA can't get that revenue out of JFK if we don't offer it. We can only feed our own traffic in and out of PHL. IMHO we are no longer an international carrier if we are only focused on feeding our own traffic in and out of PHL to Europe.

 

[jimntx]

You may be right. We'll have to see. If PHL doesn't make money, there will be a shifting of flights to other airports. Just ask SJC and Nashville (and other cities that have been downgraded to AE only service). In the 15 years I worked for AA I saw little or no evidence of routes maintained for sentimental reasons.

Maybe AA is just trying to avoid the mess that JFK will be for 2-3 years with the construction of 2 new terminals at opposite ends of the airport. JetBlue terminal on the north side and a combo terminal for Lufthansa, Air France, Korean Air Lines and Japan Airlines on the south side. ($12B of the $13B cost paid by the airlines.)

From what I saw the last time I flew into JFK (and had a 3 hour sit there before flying back to DFW. Crew Scheduling strikes again.) our terminal at JFK is in serious need of remodeling. It looks about as attractive as a Home Depot operation on the inside. And, while you're worrying about inbound International passengers connecting to AA flights, JFK is not what I would call the easiest airport in the world for connecting to other airlines, inbound or outbound. Even connecting to/from our partner airline, BA, is a challenge. As it is there are almost 10 separate terminals already.

 

[PHL]

AA has more European destinations out of PHL than any other hub. There's a reason for that - they are profitable and they can funnel a lot more connections to/from many points in the USA. JFK has capacity/slot constraints. They use those slots for their most lucrative routes that work for the NYC market, which is why there is practically hourly service to LHR and LAX, for example. Big money makers. DL has also been eating their lunch at JFK, with far more destinations and passenger volume.

Oh, and there are just 6 (not 10) terminals at JFK. T1-2 (DL/SkyTeam), T4(Intl), T5(B6), T7(BA, UA) and AA/AY at T8, which is only about 15 years old. Why do you say it needs remodeling? I find it large, bright and spacious, from a passenger perspective. Their terminals at ORD would need some TLC long before JFK.

 

[eolesen]

AA can't afford to do anything other than O&D flying at JFK. It's their highest cost US airport.

Meanwhile, UA laughs as they count the money at slot free EWR...

 

[737823]

Oh, and there are just 6 (not 10) terminals at JFK. T1-2 (DL/SkyTeam), T4(Intl), T5(B6), T7(BA, UA) and AA/AY at T8, which is only about 15 years old. Why do you say it needs remodeling? I find it large, bright and spacious, from a passenger perspective. Their terminals at ORD would need some TLC long before JFK.

T8 opened in phases between 2005 and 2007 at a time when AA planned to do a significant international expansion from JFK. The terminal ultimately was not fully built (concourse A) nor were all oneworld carriers brought in under the same roof, but with AAs cutbacks several OW carriers like Cathay Pacific have moved in recently.

I was at the terminal a few weeks ago and the new Flagship lounge and Flagship dining is spectacular. Cosmetically, the terminal is showing some age-tiles needing to be replaced, fixtures showing wear but for the most part it is a modern and pleasurable facility. Much better than anything at PHL for sure.

Josh

 

[PHL]

Meanwhile, UA laughs as they count the money at slot free EWR...

The FAA only recently (2016) gave EWR more flexibility and removed the 81 ops per hour restriction. UA moved out of JFK before that, and was still slot restricted.

You can be sure if EWR airlines start abusing their flexible scheduling allowances, and contributing to NYC airspace congestion, that the feds will clamp down again.

 

[eolesen]

UA pulling out of JFK had nothing to do with slots. It had to do with consolidating their operations down to just LGA and EWR, versus trying to do all three.

Smart move at the time, and EWR has always been a better and lower cost hub to connect at vs JFK. Or at least it was until the NJ Assembly decided to add a ridiculous tax on jet fuel to pay for PATH....