AA exec leaves to head DL backed Virgin Atlantic

[eolesen]

If we all walked in and stopped working AA would get an injunction directing us to work. So the membership is subjected to involuntary servitude.

I wasn't aware that the courts took away your free will to seek employment elsewhere.

Its no different than if the courts forced some company that you owned stock in to sell their product, and continue to provide their product under terms that you did not agree to, and justified this confiscation of property by saying "Well the shareholders have the right to sell their shares and get out of the company if they dont like it".

Uh, that's what bankruptcy does, Bob. You do realize that the court essentially allowed AMR to fire the shareholders without their concurrence, right?

You still haven't shown me where indentured servitude is taking place.

And what's funny, is that you're too dense to recognize what the term really means.... It's a legal status by which your labor was pre-purchased for a set amount of time in return for something of equal value, i.e. settling a debt, paying for your passage to the Americas, or possibly in return for your room/board as a minor if you were a ward of the state/court.

You might not be happy with the amount, but last time I checked, you are compensated at least every other week. An indentured servant didn't receive pay -- they bartered their labor in exchange for whatever they entered into the contract for.

An indentured servant was also not free to seek other employment. You and every other employee, on the other hand, are more than free to walk out the door at any time, without permission, and without recourse.

What any of this has to do with Kreeger being hired away by Branson is beyond me...

 

[Kev3188]

If we all walked in and stopped working AA would get an injunction directing us to work.

So what if they did?

The working class has become almost completely conditioned to blind obedience. We've (for the most part) forgotten that non-violent, direct action can be very effective.

 

[Bob Owens]

I wasn't aware that the courts took away your free will to seek employment elsewhere.

And if you were a shareholder at Exxon or Boeing or a Bank that was forced by the courts to provide their product at rates dictated by AA you would be free to cut your losses and sell your stock NO? If they can force Unions to not withdraw the services of their members because of failure to reach an agreement then why cant the courts do the same to Exxon, Boeing or the Banks?

Uh, that's what bankruptcy does, Bob. You do realize that the court essentially allowed AMR to fire the shareholders without their concurrence, right?

Uh WRONG !
AA shareholders are the ones who owe debts to other people, but incorporation limits their liability for that debt to the value of the shares they own. So if they allowed people to run the business poorly and they lose their shares in order to pay back the people they owe its their own fault, should other businesses be forced to subsidize AA shareholders?

The courts are not forcing the shareholders of Exxon, Boeing and any of the Banks that AA's shareholders do business with to into deals that AA dictates, but they do force Airline unions (and ONLY airline unions), they do not give AirlineUnions the same rights to withdraw what they supply as they do corporations, other unions or even other Unions under the RLA. Saying that individual members can leave if they dont like it doesnt hide the fact that the court is stealing the collective property of the Union members and giving it to the company, as I said, if they did the same thing to corporations you would sing a different tune.

 

[Bob Owens]

The working class has become almost completely conditioned to blind obedience. We've (for the most part) forgotten that non-violent, direct action can be very effective.

For the past decade, various airline employees have posted that their skills would enable them to toss off the chains that bind them to AA and, in the process, make even more money. Well, the 2003 concessions were imposed nearly 10 years ago and it's remarkable how many employees have not availed themselves of those abundant opportunities and gone elsewhere.

Despite the poor economy many have, more than ever before and continue to do so. Around 2000 mechanics since they filed BK with even more waiting to be granted their Early out or SIS, a little less than 20% have left the company and they are trying to hire off the streets now in many locations including NY, PHL, EWR, LAX and possibly ORD. NY is short around 60 mechanics.


The telling thing isnt so much that people stay, lifeboats left the Titanic half full, its that there arent many going into the profession anymore. The average age at AA for a mechanic is around 55, and getting older because the young, less senior people are leaving at a higher rate than ever before. Lets see what they hire, and how long they stay with one week of vacation and no holidays off, working nights and weekends for pay rates that are lower in some cases than when they were born.

So what if they did?

The working class has become almost completely conditioned to blind obedience. We've (for the most part) forgotten that non-violent, direct action can be very effective.

You can thank the leaders of the Unions who would rather chase dues than fight for their members.They sit back (and collect their six figure salaries) and blame the members for not participating for their failure to provide them something worthwhile to participate in.

 

[WorldTraveler]

So what if they did?

The working class has become almost completely conditioned to blind obedience. We've (for the most part) forgotten that non-violent, direct action can be very effective.

there have been employees on this site as well as other employee groups in recent BK cases who affirm that putting food on the table is more important to them than making policy statements.

Having continuous double digit unemployment is a significant hindrance to the increase of wages.

 

[eolesen]

Having continuous double digit unemployment is a significant hindrance to the increase of wages.

So is having everyone's taxes go up, which in turn reduces disposable income, which in turn causes people to take fewer trips to see the Mouse or family in far flung corners of the country, which in turn will cause airline earnings to take another dive...

 

[WorldTraveler]

indeed... there are a growing number of economists that are saying western governments esp. in Europe and the US - most of whom are deeply in debt and have enormous social promises to keep - really want to keep unemployment high in order to allow them to keep printing money w/o allowing inflation to grow, which it should do based on increased amounts of money.

Japan just approved yet another round of economic stimulus with the primary difference between Japan and the US and Europe that the Japanese are savers which provides a lot of money in the country.

 

[Kev3188]

You can thank the leaders of the Unions who would rather chase dues than fight for their members.They sit back (and collect their six figure salaries) and blame the members for not participating for their failure to provide them something worthwhile to participate in.

"Thank" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but you're right; that's why it's up to the masses to retake control of their future. That sentiment among the rank and file has been brewing for awhile, but the leaders have (for the most part) yet to catch up.

IMO, they can either get onboard and do what their memberships pay them to do, or get out of the way.

 

[737823]

Now, Tex-Mech, there you go again, trying to apply logic to 700's posts and position. I wouldn't recommend it. Parker is the savior of AA in 700's view. (Or, AA is the last best hope for LCC; I'm not exactly clear on that.)

Awesome post.

Josh