AA enters LAX -ATL

[MAH4546]

Still waiting for Delta to add all those routes from MIA, DFW, PHL, etc....
 
And yes, AA is king among Manhattan corporate contracts, always has been, still is, and Delta has tried really hard, and failed, to win any of the major contracts except Conde Nast. I credit that to AA's insanely superior loyalty programs (both AAdvantage and Business Extra) and AAirpass' very strong customer base in NYC. 
 
Pepsi, Bank of America, Goldman, Citi, DirecTV, NBC Universal, Viacom, AT&T, Credit Suisse, Hearst - all huge in New York, all use American Airlines as it's preferred carrier. 

 

[CMH_GSE]

WT:
"AA may very well succeed this time around with its ATL flights but the list of markets that DL can add in AA markets is and will be far larger."

Quintessential WT right here, I'll translate:

Yeah, AA probably made a good move, BUT at the end of the day DL WINS everything , all the time.

Dude, you are priceless.

 

[jcw]

I find it compelling AA is using 738s and not dumpy US 319s for this route. A number of LAX routes (PIT, RDU, among others) transition to US in November. I guess AA wants to provide a competitive product with IFE, power, adjustable headrests, etc things that aren't concepts at USAIR.
Josh

It will be great when they shut the CLT hub down and move all the aircraft from CLT and crews to MIA so you can have horrible flights on USAir

 

[737823]

It will be great when they shut the CLT hub down and move all the aircraft from CLT and crews to MIA so you can have horrible flights on USAir

Marco Rubio and Congresswoman llena Ros-Lehtinen won't let that happen they both fly AA from MIA extensively and are well connected with HDQ.

Josh

 

[737823]

Still waiting for Delta to add all those routes from MIA, DFW, PHL, etc....
 
And yes, AA is king among Manhattan corporate contracts, always has been, still is, and Delta has tried really hard, and failed, to win any of the major contracts except Conde Nast. I credit that to AA's insanely superior loyalty programs (both AAdvantage and Business Extra) and AAirpass' very strong customer base in NYC. 
 
Pepsi, Bank of America, Goldman, Citi, DirecTV, NBC Universal, Viacom, AT&T, Credit Suisse, Hearst - all huge in New York, all use American Airlines as it's preferred carrier.

DL has made no ground in LA either, all the studios and entertainment industry sticks with AA too.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Still waiting for Delta to add all those routes from MIA, DFW, PHL, etc....
 
And yes, AA is king among Manhattan corporate contracts, always has been, still is, and Delta has tried really hard, and failed, to win any of the major contracts except Conde Nast. I credit that to AA's insanely superior loyalty programs (both AAdvantage and Business Extra) and AAirpass' very strong customer base in NYC. 
 
Pepsi, Bank of America, Goldman, Citi, DirecTV, NBC Universal, Viacom, AT&T, Credit Suisse, Hearst - all huge in New York, all use American Airlines as it's preferred carrier.

 
 

DL has made no ground in LA either, all the studios and entertainment industry sticks with AA too.

Josh

I'm sorry but DL has an average fare advantage in both NYC and LAX to AA whether you look at solely domestic or int'l.

DL's share of LAX has grown faster in LAX than has AA's.

While both of you clearly have reasons in trying to argue for AA's superiority, your supposed provided just doesn't measure up.

we can keep this thread going for another week or so until 3rd quarter results are reported but AA will not result reports anywhere near as strong as DL. Further, DOT revenue market level data for the 2nd quarter should be out within the next few weeks and it is absolutely certain that DL will continue to show market level gains in both NYC and LAX. Both markets are far too large to not move in the same direction as the rest of both carriers' network results.

quite simply, AA is free to start any market it wants - but it has yet to demonstrate that it can add service into key DL markets and deliver the same kind of results that DL can get in AA markets.

DL does not see a need to add dozens of new routes in highly competitive markets as AA does and yet DL's revenue continues to grow faster.

DL will grow its overall revenue base in the appropriate time and that growth will include key AA markets.

Also, it is clear that AA is facing increasing competition from UA; in turn, AA is trying to grow into DL markets to try to break the continual cycle of up and down that goes on between AA and UA. Given that AA's costs are growing faster than either DL or UA's, it makes it very hard to believe that AA can be successful certainly as a higher cost provider than DL - exactly the position that AA was in for much of the last decade which is when DL grew as much as it did in NYC.

as with everything in this history, there is more than enough data to see who is right in time but you two are clearly holding onto a reality which does not currently exist or which is not likely to play out in the future.

 

[737823]

WT many of the agreements DL negotiated in the 2010-11 timeframe are opening up again and are coming to AA. How will DL regain those accounts? In NYC AA has a much better schedule to the key markets, superior transcon product with much greater frequency, superior terminal facilities, greater frequency to LHR with BA JBV. Yes DL runs a consistent and reliable operation but they have still failed to gain a meaningful presence in these markets.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Josh
if AA lost the accounts to DL, they will either regain them on the same basis that DL gained them - and the number one reason is level of service and price.

DL IS a lower cost carrier than AA which means that ANY lower cost provider has an advantage over its competitors.

DL and UA are managing to keep their costs flat while AA's continue to grow. Much of AA's growth is directly because their CASM will grow even higher if they have to stop growing.

So they are throwing tons of new capacity into the market that doesn't have the same ability to generate premium revenues; if that capacity did have the same ability to generate strong revenues, AA wouldn't be training DL and UA.

you can look at every one of those factors you list- product, terminals, and JV and the same relative performance was the same then.

AA IS NOT any larger relative to DL or UA in NYC than it was and DL has kept up with or exceeded AA/US's growth in LAX. IN fact, at both LGA and JFK, AA and US have BOTH shrunk their revenue by 11% as of the most recent quarter looking back over the last few years; every other US carrier in the market has grown their revenue. AA has pulled out of numerous NYC markets while US GAVE DL 1/4 of the slots at LGA for next to nothing.

AA is no more likely to regain accounts than it did several years ago.

for you to say that DL can't gain a meaningful presence is completely incorrect and biased.

DL is THE LARGEST carrier at BOTH LGA and JFK and serves more of the top markets from both LGA and JFK than any other airline.

Even at LAX where DL is #3 behind AA and UA, DL has grown MORE AGGRESSIVELY than AA or UA have, even including the US merger.

you are free to believe what you want, but the facts clearly do not support your position.

 

[robbedagain]

DL this DL that! guess what,,, F..k with DL this and dl that we are all sick n tired of seeing u flipping cheer dl does it best n better than any other flippin airline take that crap n get lost enough is enough

 

[MAH4546]

DL has made no ground in LA either, all the studios and entertainment industry sticks with AA too.

Josh

 
Yup. Literally every studio and talent agency and television company and production company is in bed with American. In this industry, unless there's a non-stop on a competitor and not AA (i.e. you need to get to Atlanta), you often fly American. 
 
Delta has tried really hard to steal it, and has failed.
 
Atlanta is a hotbed for film and TV production right now, and guess who's about to get a lot of production company and Turner traffic literally overnight starting March 5th? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL this DL that! guess what,,, F..k with DL this and dl that we are all sick n tired of seeing u flipping cheer dl does it best n better than any other flippin airline take that crap n get lost enough is enough

you do realize that LAX-ATL is one of DL's largest routes?

did you really think there could be a discussion about this market without talking about DL.

If AA had started a route that didn't involve a strength market for another carrier, then there would be little to no discussion.

but AA's growth plans of late have nearly all involved pushing into other carrier strength markets and yet based on all available data, AA's growth is coming at the expense of higher revenue performance.

btw, in a week that saw a lot of volatility on Wall Street, AAL stock lost more ground than any other of the major 6 US jet carriers.

it is noteworthy also that JBLU just reported its traffic and RASM performance for September and they reported a 1% RASM increase on 5% more capacity, by far one of the weakest RASM showings given that B6's network is heavily domestic. Considering that WN is showing strong RASM growth as a domestic only airline and the big 3 are all seeing strong domestic RASM growth, it is very eye catching that B6 is underperforming as much as it is on revenue.

 

[FWAAA]

For chrissakes - a while back,  DL began flying hourly shuttle service on LGA-ORD, one of "AA's largest routes."   I don't recall the hand-wringing from any AA fans about that service addition that we see today from DL's biggest non-employee cheerleader at the news that AA will fly three times a day between the nation's largest O&D airport and the nation's sixth largest O&D airport.   
 
Yes, as a result of AA flying ATL-LAX, Richard Anderson and Co will follow AA to the gates of hell.   AA and every one of its employees will rue the day that AA dared to connect its last hub to Atlanta.    GMAFB.   

 

[Mach85ER]

Obviously there is no other choice for AAG than to fly passengers to ATL free of charge from as many destinations as possible so they can connect to the unstoppable Delta network.
 
BTW WT, are you some kind of boy in a bubble with nothing else to do?

 

[robbedagain]

U do realize i really DGAF bout what routes are dl largest

 

[WorldTraveler]

For chrissakes - a while back,  DL began flying hourly shuttle service on LGA-ORD, one of "AA's largest routes."   I don't recall the hand-wringing from any AA fans about that service addition that we see today from DL's biggest non-employee cheerleader at the news that AA will fly three times a day between the nation's largest O&D airport and the nation's sixth largest O&D airport.   
 
Yes, as a result of AA flying ATL-LAX, Richard Anderson and Co will follow AA to the gates of hell.   AA and every one of its employees will rue the day that AA dared to connect its last hub to Atlanta.    GMAFB.

you clearly have no clue what has happened.

in the space of a couple weeks, AA has announced service in DL's top two markets. whether robbed is capable of understanding what is involved when two companies move into each other's top markets, other people, including DL's executives do know what it means.

Unlike ORD-LGA which was part of the slot swap which took 2 years for approval and which resulted in the largest reshaping of service in the largest US airports since deregulation, AA's move is nothing but pure provocation for for one reason or the other.

Perhaps AA is ticked because DL is entering DFW-LAX, a market it once served compounded with DL serving ATL to both Dallas airports with jets, something I said they would do.

Whatever the reason, AA has decided to escalate a significantly tit for tat relationship that has existed between DL and AA over the past several years.

since DL started serving DFW-LGA as part of the slot swap and now has 20% of the market, AA might have decided it was time to wake up and fight back.

So, yes, AA can go ahead and escalate the competition between AA and DL but I can assure that this is a whole lot bigger deal than you want to make it out to be.