AA enters LAX -ATL
- Thread starter lpbrian
- Start date
TRAVIS
Veteran
RUMOR ATL TO BE NEXT FOCUS HUB....!
TRAVIS
Veteran
HERE FISHEE FISHEE! LOL
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- #244
so, all CRSs are the same because they came from the same basic IBM core?
no, son, you made an incorrect statement and instead of admit that even with a 5% difference, Deltamatic is a separate CRS from Worldspan. NW used WSPN as its internal res system and DL even when it was a partial owner of WSPN used Deltamatic. DL had certain components from WSPN such as their int'l pricing functionality but Deltamatic is a distinct CRS.
to try to argue otherwise is simply erroneous.
DL pulled off the fastest and smoothest res system cutover.
no one has come close to matching DL's record WRT res system cutovers in a larger US merger.
instead, AA is spending its money starting new routes in which they clearly will not perform financially at levels comparable to the rest of their system.
Everyone get ready for the smack down
Here is the link to the history of workdspsn
WT is flatly wrong
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldspan
Here is the link to the history of workdspsn
WT is flatly wrong
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldspan
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #246
you don't get it and the fact that you try to argue a point which you don't understand highlights your ignorance of the subject.
DL owned part of Worldspan, the CRS, but still retained Deltamatic as its internal res system.
nowhere in the article or anywhere else will you find that DL used WSPN as its internal res system because they did not. NW did.
in fact, DL originally planned to use WSPN as its internal res system during the initial merger plans which would have allowed DL to retain a number of NW systems.
DL's intent was to sunset Deltamatic and use WSPN because the thinking was that the travel agent community partially subsidized the cost of WSPN development which should have reduced costs for DL.
DL determined that it would have cost more to convert many of DL's systems that were superior to NW's - including what Delta called the Delta Nervous System which pushed data thruout DL's system including DL's then newly redesigned entire airport architecture - and instead decided to retain Deltamatic.
it is precisely because of DL's decision that it would have been more costly to convert to WSPN that DL used its own website and its own kiosk functionality even though some thought that NW's was superior.
If DL was using the same res system as NW, then it would have been easy to use NW's systems.
DL used and still uses Deltmatic as its internal res system.
the res system migration was from NW WSPN to DL's Deltamatic system.
DL owned part of Worldspan, the CRS, but still retained Deltamatic as its internal res system.
nowhere in the article or anywhere else will you find that DL used WSPN as its internal res system because they did not. NW did.
in fact, DL originally planned to use WSPN as its internal res system during the initial merger plans which would have allowed DL to retain a number of NW systems.
DL's intent was to sunset Deltamatic and use WSPN because the thinking was that the travel agent community partially subsidized the cost of WSPN development which should have reduced costs for DL.
DL determined that it would have cost more to convert many of DL's systems that were superior to NW's - including what Delta called the Delta Nervous System which pushed data thruout DL's system including DL's then newly redesigned entire airport architecture - and instead decided to retain Deltamatic.
it is precisely because of DL's decision that it would have been more costly to convert to WSPN that DL used its own website and its own kiosk functionality even though some thought that NW's was superior.
If DL was using the same res system as NW, then it would have been easy to use NW's systems.
DL used and still uses Deltmatic as its internal res system.
the res system migration was from NW WSPN to DL's Deltamatic system.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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It goes even deeper than that, JCW.
The early res systems used IBM's operating system running Sabretalk, which is AA's original PNR core, and eventually licensed by IBM to the other airlines running TPF based systems. Datas/Deltamatic may have been a physically separate system from PARS in the early 90's, but the PNR core was essentially a clone of what was used in PARS, PACER, SOTA, SABRE, and Apollo.
Enough of the history, though...
When it comes to a PNR migration, all the functionality that an airline builds on for availability management, pricing, seat assignments, check-in, etc. don't really matter.
What matters is the PNR structure.
WT may have had experience with Deltamatic, but he had none with PARS.
When I was with ARI, we did revenue integrity for Delta (they are still a customer) by reading in their raw PNR (screen scraping... lovely technology). We also did a live prototype with Northwest prior to the merger. The PNR structures were identical. All we had to do was take our DL interface, clone it, and point it towards a set of NWA LNIATA's. There were some data elements that DL had which NW didn't, and vice versa, but the mapping of unique fields came out to the 90-95% I referred to, and the content in some of those fields was superfluous to what was really needed.
So, WT can argue until his #### sticks out of his ears, but at the end of the day, if the PNR structureis the same, there are no real challenges to doing a migration. There was no impact to travel agencies whatsoever. The only change was perhaps the record locator.
The early res systems used IBM's operating system running Sabretalk, which is AA's original PNR core, and eventually licensed by IBM to the other airlines running TPF based systems. Datas/Deltamatic may have been a physically separate system from PARS in the early 90's, but the PNR core was essentially a clone of what was used in PARS, PACER, SOTA, SABRE, and Apollo.
Enough of the history, though...
When it comes to a PNR migration, all the functionality that an airline builds on for availability management, pricing, seat assignments, check-in, etc. don't really matter.
What matters is the PNR structure.
WT may have had experience with Deltamatic, but he had none with PARS.
When I was with ARI, we did revenue integrity for Delta (they are still a customer) by reading in their raw PNR (screen scraping... lovely technology). We also did a live prototype with Northwest prior to the merger. The PNR structures were identical. All we had to do was take our DL interface, clone it, and point it towards a set of NWA LNIATA's. There were some data elements that DL had which NW didn't, and vice versa, but the mapping of unique fields came out to the 90-95% I referred to, and the content in some of those fields was superfluous to what was really needed.
So, WT can argue until his #### sticks out of his ears, but at the end of the day, if the PNR structureis the same, there are no real challenges to doing a migration. There was no impact to travel agencies whatsoever. The only change was perhaps the record locator.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #249
so, E, all res systems are the same are they not?
can you just not admit that WSPN and Deltamatic are two different systems just as WSPN is from Sabre?
You do realize that DL also considered ditching Deltamatic in favor of Sabre but the Justice dept., IIRC, blocked that deal.
DL has tried multiple times to get rid of Deltamatic but still retains it.
it is flat out wrong to try to argue that DLM is the same res system as WSPN or Sabre
It is nice to see you hanging yourself professionally on a subject about which you supposedly travel the world as a consultant.
I have a feeling you might be asked to trade even more vacation for remedial education.
can you just not admit that WSPN and Deltamatic are two different systems just as WSPN is from Sabre?
You do realize that DL also considered ditching Deltamatic in favor of Sabre but the Justice dept., IIRC, blocked that deal.
DL has tried multiple times to get rid of Deltamatic but still retains it.
it is flat out wrong to try to argue that DLM is the same res system as WSPN or Sabre
It is nice to see you hanging yourself professionally on a subject about which you supposedly travel the world as a consultant.
I have a feeling you might be asked to trade even more vacation for remedial education.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #251
and yet you continue to argue that Deltamatic and WSPN are the same res system - or refuse to admit that they are not the same by going thru immense attempts to argue that all res systems are about the same.
of course they are "about the same" - except that they aren't EXACTLY the same.
and it is those distinct differences that exist that make it incorrec to argue Deltamatic and WSPN are the same thing.
they simply are not
of course they are "about the same" - except that they aren't EXACTLY the same.
and it is those distinct differences that exist that make it incorrec to argue Deltamatic and WSPN are the same thing.
they simply are not
You don't get it - it came from the same base code - the problem is DL confused you by calling it it a different name internally - we realize that you don't comprehend companies buy software all the time and use internal names for it
Sorry DL did not cover that with you or consulted you on naming their red system
Let's get this straight the person who actually worked on the systems your saying has no idea what they are talking about vs the FA who never worked on the systems does know - when I say work on the system I don't mean standing behind a kiosk looking up flight information
Once again bless your heart , you continue to defy objectivity
Just curious is you bedroom decked out in DL sheets or do you sleep in a first class seat in your house
Sorry DL did not cover that with you or consulted you on naming their red system
Let's get this straight the person who actually worked on the systems your saying has no idea what they are talking about vs the FA who never worked on the systems does know - when I say work on the system I don't mean standing behind a kiosk looking up flight information
Once again bless your heart , you continue to defy objectivity
Just curious is you bedroom decked out in DL sheets or do you sleep in a first class seat in your house
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #253
same basic code and the same functionality doesn't work.
it is a different res system.
period.
E and you are wrong. I have no idea who you are but E claims to get paid to consult companies around the world on the subject.
All your personal attacks will not change that continuing to argue that DLM and WSPN are the same res system is completely wrong.
it is a different res system.
period.
E and you are wrong. I have no idea who you are but E claims to get paid to consult companies around the world on the subject.
All your personal attacks will not change that continuing to argue that DLM and WSPN are the same res system is completely wrong.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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I've never argued they were the same system. That's your projection.
What I said --- and you are hanging your entire argument on one word --- is that they were in Worldspan.
Since Worldspan is a GDS, not a CRS, I'm smart enough not to try and argue otherwise.
If you want to continue to play semantic bullshite, I'm undeniably correct that they're both in Worldspan, but I never said they were the same system.
What I've said is that the PNR structures were essentially identical, and the two operating environments were within Worldspan's control. The data never left their custody. The programmers working on both systems were receiving their paychecks from the same entity.
Since you seem to be fixated on where paychecks originate, why don't you try to argue how Deltamatic was outside Worldspan when all the paychecks being issued to the people programming and maintaining the system were being paid by Worldspan?....
You can continue to laser-focus on the minutae all you want to, WT.
The larger fact also stands that the **ONLY** reason DL was able to make their PNR migration in 10 months has nothing to do with the superiority of anything DL did, but was just a matter of the technological evolution of the reservation systems.
Had AA and UA merged, they would have probably had a similar ease in merging PNR data.
The problems with both the AA/US and CO/UA system merges all stem from SHARES. It's not a clone of Sabretalk. Had DL merged with CO, they would have had the same issues that CO and UA did.
Getting past all the crap, that was the line of discussion, and you have once again successfully argued yourself down a tangent and into a corner where you couldn't Google the answer.
Again, the man with the experience isn't at the mercy of the man with the opinion.
Have a great day, Skippy. I know I will.
What I said --- and you are hanging your entire argument on one word --- is that they were in Worldspan.
Since Worldspan is a GDS, not a CRS, I'm smart enough not to try and argue otherwise.
If you want to continue to play semantic bullshite, I'm undeniably correct that they're both in Worldspan, but I never said they were the same system.
What I've said is that the PNR structures were essentially identical, and the two operating environments were within Worldspan's control. The data never left their custody. The programmers working on both systems were receiving their paychecks from the same entity.
Since you seem to be fixated on where paychecks originate, why don't you try to argue how Deltamatic was outside Worldspan when all the paychecks being issued to the people programming and maintaining the system were being paid by Worldspan?....
You can continue to laser-focus on the minutae all you want to, WT.
The larger fact also stands that the **ONLY** reason DL was able to make their PNR migration in 10 months has nothing to do with the superiority of anything DL did, but was just a matter of the technological evolution of the reservation systems.
Had AA and UA merged, they would have probably had a similar ease in merging PNR data.
The problems with both the AA/US and CO/UA system merges all stem from SHARES. It's not a clone of Sabretalk. Had DL merged with CO, they would have had the same issues that CO and UA did.
Getting past all the crap, that was the line of discussion, and you have once again successfully argued yourself down a tangent and into a corner where you couldn't Google the answer.
Again, the man with the experience isn't at the mercy of the man with the opinion.
Have a great day, Skippy. I know I will.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #255
the statement below is INCORRECT no matter how hard you try to argue otherwise.
Deltamatic is a separate res system.
Where data is stored has nothing to do with what it takes to convert PNRs accurately from one independent system to another.
The fact that all airline res systems today have their roots in the same core that was used to build Sabre does not negate the real differences that exist and which made it just as big of an effort to migrate from WSPN to DLM as it would have been from any other mainframe res system.
DL has tried multiple times to get rid of DLM because it is unique and not compatible with other systems. And "almost" or "at the core" do not cut it.
DL has retained DLM despite attempts to merge with Sabre and to migrate to WSPN as DL's internal res system.
DL was not IN and is still not IN WSPN.
Deltamatic is a separate res system.
Where data is stored has nothing to do with what it takes to convert PNRs accurately from one independent system to another.
The fact that all airline res systems today have their roots in the same core that was used to build Sabre does not negate the real differences that exist and which made it just as big of an effort to migrate from WSPN to DLM as it would have been from any other mainframe res system.
DL has tried multiple times to get rid of DLM because it is unique and not compatible with other systems. And "almost" or "at the core" do not cut it.
DL has retained DLM despite attempts to merge with Sabre and to migrate to WSPN as DL's internal res system.
