AA adds second daily LAX-LHR

[FWAAA]

Fascinating.  The "#3 and below player in a market cannot compete with larger rivals."  I guess Delta is screwed in Southern California then!

Excellent points. If being #3 dooms a carrier, then how will DL survive in the San Francisco market? Or Texas? Or South America?

 

[eolesen]

when E or someone else wants to attack my character, then I do what most anyone else will do which is fight back.

Nah, I don't attack your character. I'm sure you're a great father and husband, and I'm sure you're pretty adherent to the principles of your faith.

Pointing out your lack of interpersonal skills? That's your personality, not your character.

Meanwhile, you've accused me of adultery, theft, drug use, and God knows what else in the past year or three. All textbook character attacks. All actionable, too.

 

[robbedagain]

although I do recall at some point late last yr or early this yr  you hammered me for grammar  and u hammered another poster for some other crap so don't sit there behind your lit cubicle and desk and tell the board you don't attack character...

 

[WorldTraveler]

give it a rest, E.

You also have posted fraudulently obtained information on the internet.

actionable.

have half a brain and give it up - unless you want to restart the same process all over again.

and perhaps part of the reason you think you have been so harmed is to not be able to grasp that the term "in bed with... " has figurative and literal meanings. I have never said which of the two I meant nor provided any evidence to say it was the latter.


as to the topic at hand.

No, AA is NOT the leader in the JFK transcons. DL is based on local market, total traffic, and forward capacity.
again, you can argue that AA serves the European markets that matter - but DL and UA serve far more. and size does matter. just because you or AA decided to draw the line right below what you think is enough, the market says otherwise.

and, no, DL is not an afterthought in the JFK - Caribbean market. DL has a 23% share compared to B6's 64%. AA? 11%. that sounds like an afterthought.

AA from NYC to Europe is actually an afterthought compared to DL and UA. I can't find a single market to Europe from EWR or JFK where AA has an average fare and revenue advantage over DL and UA. NONE.

AA's average fares in the local market are double digit below DL and UA. We're not talking aobut the middle east. We are talking about Europe.

and more significantly, the gap between AA and DL/UA in NYC is widening.

You'll see in time but the ship has sailed and AA has lost the opportunity to generate fares on par with DL and UA in the NYC market other than to AA/US hubs - which don't include oneworld partner hubs.

it is only a matter of time between AA is reduced to service to its own US hubs from NYC

 

[commavia]

Ah yes, like I said before:  if you didn't make all your posts reek of BS, you would want us to believe that AA is going to make New York just a spoke from DFW.  Dream on.

 
Yep.  Here it is.  You've heard it here first, folks: AA "probably" has "lost NYC."  Just like how Delta is going to put JAL out of business and "win in N. Texas."  This stuff is just so stupid it's laughable.
 

Excellent points. If being #3 dooms a carrier, then how will DL survive in the San Francisco market? Or Texas? Or South America?

 
Haha yeah, forget about Texas - Delta is screwed there!  Delta doesn't even make the top three - it's fourth!  That will all, of course, change when Delta "wins in N. Texas," though - and we all know that's coming soon.
 

Meanwhile, you've accused me of adultery, theft, drug use, and God knows what else in the past year or three.

 
I cannot wait for the diatribe on why these things don't amount to an attack on your character, and instead are simply a rational, fact-based assessment ... and why Delta is always best.  Again - laughably stupid (and, needless to say, hypocritical).

 

[WorldTraveler]

what is sad, not laughable, is that you can't accept that there are real business issues at stake which you can't counter and so the only option in your mind is to slander the person who tells you what you don't want to hear.
AA has passed the point of no return in being competitive in NYC with both DL and UA. It isn't about DL alone.

It is about AA and US' combined years of failing to defend the core NYC market and then waking up to realize it is too late.

IT. IS. TOO. LATE. FOR. AA. IN. NYC.

They are trying with everything they have to not have the same thing happen on the west coast.

Problem is that DL and UA are both larger than AA/US on the west coast as a whole and DL is growing far faster than AA/US.

 

[commavia]

Hahahahahaha.  Such wishful thinking, such detachment from reality.  It's like February 2010 all over again when JAL picked AA instead of Delta and then AA-BA got approved without any carveouts - all within a matter of days.
 
AA continues to strengthen its position in LAX, and maintains a compelling and competitive offering in NYC, along with great hubs throughout the U.S. in some of the largest and most important markets, true dominance in Latin America, a competitive network to Europe, enviable global JV partners in some of the largest and most important international markets, and - of course - is steadily closing the gap with Delta across the Pacific.
 
All these messianic and idiotic predictions, doom and gloom for AA and endless incoherent mumblings on Delta's allegedly-permanent advantages in every possible way ... such fear, fear, fear.  This is so funny (and fun) to watch.

 

[WorldTraveler]

huh.... AA/BA had to divest a number of slots. AA/JL are still far smaller than DL and have lost share to DL in the US-Japan market since the AA/JL JV was implemented.


DL's revenue and capacity growth at LAX is faster than AA.

no one has said AA will fold up and die.

I have said and there is abundant public data to show that AA is well below the size of DL and UA in NYC and AA continues to shrink in non-hub markets, largely at DL's expense.

I'm sorry that you aren't mature enough to not laugh at and mock such reality.

 

[700UW]

In 2013 JFK Traffic Statistics.
 
AA Domestic 4,345,100
AA International:  3,208,371
AA totals out of JFK:  7,553,471
 
 
DL Domestic:  7,244,249
DL International:  4,396,939
DL totals out of JFK:  11,641,188
 
 
Now lets see what US did out of JFK:
 
US Domestic:  877,083.
 
So PMAA and PMUS carried 8,430,544 out of JFK.
 
EWR Statistics:
 
AA Domestic:  1,038,891
US Domestic:  1,349,425
 
Total Combined:  2,388,316
 
DL Domestic:  1,338,847
DL International:  188,780
DL Total: 1,527,627
 
Sidenote UA carried over 24,500,000 out of EWR.
 
LGA Statistics:
 
AA Domestic:  4,692,070
AA International:  293,350
AA Total:  4,985,420
 
US Domestic:  2,733,865
 
PMAA and PMUS carried a total of 7,719,285 passengers.
 
DL Domestic:  10,344,741
DL International:  260,258
DL Total:  10,604,999
 
So lets add it all up:
 
AA/US carried a total of 18,538,145
 
DL carried: 23,773,814
 
So just UA alone at EWR carries more passengers than DL at all THREE NYC Area Aiports.
 
So the out of the NYC Region they carried the following: (this includes SWF also)
 
AA:  13,577,782
US:  5,044,907
DL:  23,852,436
 
http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/ATR2013.pdf

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

No, AA is NOT the leader in the JFK transcons. DL is based on local market, total traffic, and forward capacity.
.........
it is only a matter of time between AA is reduced to service to its own US hubs from NYC

 
1)  Interesting on which statistics you choose to define leaders by.  On one thread its revenue yet on another it is # of seats.
BTW: how is DL doing in terms of revenue?
Curious you don't mention that except the occasional and very vague  "almost as good as AA"...................
Like I said, it's almost as good as if you had a narrative to sell ...............
 
2)  Here it is.  You're so easy to predicts.  You're dreaming that AA would become a niche player in NY or just make NY a spoke from it's hubs.  Thanks for the laughs.

 

[MAH4546]

huh.... AA/BA had to divest a number of slots. AA/JL are still far smaller than DL and have lost share to DL in the US-Japan market since the AA/JL JV was implemented.
 

 
A "number" of slots? It was a mere four slots. And today, all but one of them are back with AA/BA; and AA gets that one slot back from Delta in April 2018. 

 

[commavia]

2)  Here it is.  You're so easy to predicts.  You're dreaming that AA would become a niche player in NY or just make NY a spoke from it's hubs.  Thanks for the laughs.

 
Exactly.  It is laughable wishful thinking - nothing more, nothing less.
 
As I said - at this point, I honestly find it amusing to read all of these hysterical rants about nothing because, like with numerous times in the past, it just makes it all the more enjoyable when these ridiculous arguments collapse in on themselves like the logical and rhetorical dying starts that they are.

 

[WorldTraveler]

In 2013 JFK Traffic Statistics.
 
AA Domestic 4,345,100
AA International:  3,208,371
AA totals out of JFK:  7,553,471
 
 
DL Domestic:  7,244,249
DL International:  4,396,939
DL totals out of JFK:  11,641,188
 
 
Now lets see what US did out of JFK:
 
US Domestic:  877,083.
 
So PMAA and PMUS carried 8,430,544 out of JFK.
 
EWR Statistics:
 
AA Domestic:  1,038,891
US Domestic:  1,349,425
 
Total Combined:  2,388,316
 
DL Domestic:  1,338,847
DL International:  188,780
DL Total: 1,527,627
 
Sidenote UA carried over 24,500,000 out of EWR.
 
LGA Statistics:
 
AA Domestic:  4,692,070
AA International:  293,350
AA Total:  4,985,420
 
US Domestic:  2,733,865
 
PMAA and PMUS carried a total of 7,719,285 passengers.
 
DL Domestic:  10,344,741
DL International:  260,258
DL Total:  10,604,999
 
So lets add it all up:
 
AA/US carried a total of 18,538,145
 
DL carried: 23,773,814
 
So just UA alone at EWR carries more passengers than DL at all THREE NYC Area Aiports.
 
So the out of the NYC Region they carried the following: (this includes SWF also)
 
AA:  13,577,782
US:  5,044,907
DL:  23,852,436
 
http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/ATR2013.pdf

once again, you quote traffic statistics which represent all traffic that flows out of the airport and not local passengers or revenue.

in the JFK transcons, DL is at 98% of AA's total revenue in the JFK-LAX LOCAL market and at 99% of UA's total revenue in the combined JFK-LAX/SFO local markets. including SFO, AA falls significantly below DL and UA.

AA has higher average fares than DL in the LAX market while UA has higher average fares than DL to SFO.

but DL is #2 in both markets and makes up for its lower average fares with more volume.

again, DL has managed to take a larger portion of the NYC side of the market from both AA and UA and has developed a larger presence in both markets than AA to SFO or UA to LAX. It is only because of higher fares to SFO that have allowed UA to maintain its position on a combined market basis.

It's not a dream of mine for AA to become anything. publicly available data shows that AA has lost so much share and revenue in so many competitive markets that they are already a niche compared to DL and UA.

the only question is how long it will take before AA decides that it is no longer worth trying to compete in the few remaining markets that are not to one of their own or their partners' hubs.

 

[700UW]

Spin spin spin.
 
Why arent you running Delta or the top airline financial expert in the world?
 
When TRUE statistics dont suit you, you make up crap or divert and deflect the topic.
 
This describes you to a T "figures dont lie, but figurers do!"

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Your credibility was already shot before you said this:
 

I didn't say AA is reduced to a niche player.

 

 AA has lost so much share and revenue in so many competitive markets that they are already a niche compared to DL and UA.

 
"WholeTruth"