A321T

[FWAAA]

Right the 321 can't make it from JFK now so going from LGA will be impossible - how do you come up with this stuff

I may be giving him more credit than is due, but I assume that WT is talking about the potential inability of the A321 to takeoff from a 7000 foot LGA runway compared to the 11,000 foot JFK runway. The A321 is a low and slow airplane when fully fueled, and the performance charts might require more than 7000 feet to safely takeoff.

The flip side is that the A32Bs (A321Ts) seat just 102 passengers and thus the passengers plus bags total is a relatively small (lightweight) number.

The international 757s could easily do it while AA reconfigured two dozen 738s in a 3-class configuration that would be able to make the west coast and takeoff from a 7000 foot runway.

In any event, even penny-pinching Delta will have probably replaced its entire fleet before the PA sunsets the perimeter rule, so AA (and everyone else) probably has a decade or two to plan.

 

[jcw]

I agree they are dogs on take off and climb however AA has plenty of aircraft to fly the missions - it's just amazing to what lengths he will go to trash AA

 

[nycbusdriver]

AA has committed to getting rid of its 757 fleet other than for int'l use.

and maybe the PANYNJ won't change a thing but it appears that they are far more serious about it than they were years ago.

 
Maybe that is true today.  But in the very unlikely event that the Port Authory changes the rule, AA still has plenty of 757s to do the job, and they can always change that "committment"  (or will Delta sue them if they change their business plan without permission?)  
 
Given the length of the runways at LGA, there really is not another narrow-body out there that could consistently do the job of transcon out of LGA and carry a profitable load in the process.

 

[Overspeed]

Hawaiian Airlines is going to fly West Coast to Hawaii with the 321
 
http://beatofhawaii.com/what-hawaiian-airlines-huge-plane-order-means-to-you/
 
AA is planning on flying them ETOPS to Hawaii as well. Notice the 32H designator on the two class aircraft. OGG is 6,995 feet

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, the issue is the runway at LGA, not whether the 321 or 738 or 9 has the range.

Of course AA could convert some 757s or even 763ERs which could likely do the job just as good but the irony will be that AA will have to figure out a way to make the premium transcon markets work on the 757 or 767, an option they clearly had before but chose not to exercise.

and even if the 321T can make it, there simply aren't enough slots at LGA for AA to be using an aircraft that holds only 110 seats when other competitors will offer a lot more seats on aircraft that can go the distance.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Of course AA could convert some 757s or even 763ERs which could likely do the job just as good but the irony will be that AA will have to figure out a way to make the premium transcon markets work on the 757 or 767, an option they clearly had before but chose not to exercise.

Huh?  What is the difficulty of keeping around some 757s for longer than planned and doing some cabin/seat modifications to have a sub-fleet?

and even if the 321T can make it, there simply aren't enough slots at LGA for AA to be using an aircraft that holds only 110 seats when other competitors will offer a lot more seats on aircraft that can go the distance.

I would say that as far as slots are concerned, the obvious answer is to cut service to the small cities or least profitable cities.
With respect to using a 110 seat A321, the strategy seems to be working, at least for now form JFK, so why would it not work from LGA?

 

[FWAAA]

Hawaiian Airlines is going to fly West Coast to Hawaii with the 321
 
http://beatofhawaii.com/what-hawaiian-airlines-huge-plane-order-means-to-you/
 
AA is planning on flying them ETOPS to Hawaii as well. Notice the 32H designator on the two class aircraft. OGG is 6,995 feet

That's nice, but A321neos, which have yet to be built, have nothing to do with this thread or this discussion. Your post reminds me of the 13 year old at the party of adults who blurts out irrelevant material because he just wants to participate in the grown-ups' discussion.
  

and even if the 321T can make it, there simply aren't enough slots at LGA for AA to be using an aircraft that holds only 110 seats when other competitors will offer a lot more seats on aircraft that can go the distance.

Yes, in the unlikely event that the PA rescinds the perimeter rule, AA will be at huge disadvantage.

The AA A321T seats 102, not 110. 10F/20J/36MCE/36Y- for a total of 102.

As an aside, the B738 performance charts confirm that a 738 with about 84 seats (10F/20J/54Y) would be light enough to takeoff with about 6,000 of runway at sea level (like LGA) on all but the hottest days. With passengers and bags weighing just 20k pounds or so, the 738 would not need a full tank of gas to get to SFO or LAX, and would thus be substantially under its MTOW.

Would 84-seat 738s be terribly inefficient? Sure. Delta would win. But that's not my point. The point is that there are airplanes in the fleet that could easily make it to LAX from LGA with a similar configuration to the A321T.

 

[WorldTraveler]

of they could use 757s which AA has and which could carry a lot more than even 102 passengers... they had them when they made the decision to put 321s on the JFK transcons.

given that there is enormous incentive to maximize the use of slots at LGA and minimize cuts in short-haul services (more slots tied up with transcons makes for more other markets which AA would have to drop and where DL could become the only carrier).

if this happens, one very possible outcome will be that AA could ditch the 321s on JFK-LAX, convert the flights to 757s which could fly from both LGA and JFK and increase the number of seats on the transcon flights.

no, AA might be at a disadvantage to DL simply because DL has more slots but this is one strategy that will help both AA and DL, and like the DAL issue and the ME3, AA and DL might decide that is worth their collective efforts to fight this together.

if it comes down to 737s, use 737-700s or 319s with the most powerful engines and fill them to 120-130 seats.

If it really is that big of a deal to get a plane off of the runways at LGA, then the market will shift to the most powerful and largest aircraft possible. it makes little sense to add huge business and first class cabins if the market is dominated by a few carriers.

 

[Overspeed]

Was making the point that 321s are certified to fly from a runway length 7,000 feet on an over 5 hour flight. AA is planning to fly the 321 with the existing V2500-A5 on that route.
 
A 737 doesn't have to be dropped to some low density config to make that distance either. UA flies SNA to EWR with a 737 non-stop now. SNA is less than 6,000 feet with severe takeoff restrictions on departure. A 737 or 321 with winglets will make the LGA to West Coast run.

 

[jcw]

Wait so only AA would have to drop smaller markets to fly west coast - where do you come up with this stuff - DL there are no more slots coming to LGA so DL would have to cut service some where to free up slots for west coast flying

Let's see the authorities could decide to take slots and auction them off or do a lottery - the beauty of the slots are the are controlled by the govt

 

[WorldTraveler]

the use of the NYC slots is controlled by the PANYNJ

and again, you aren't smart enough to realize that AA will benefit from a change in the use of slots at LGA even if DL might get a larger benefit.

like half a dozen other people on here, you think that getting even on an internet chat forum is more important that winning for your company.

AA will absolutely benefit with longhaul domestic flights from LGA and at the expense of B6 and UA and VX. I said it within minutes of when the news broke and other sources have confirmed the same assessment.

AA IS NOT going to block the deal because DL can do better beause they have more slots.

AA will take what it can and run with it - and benefit even if DL gains more.

if you and others here would grow up and quit equating life to an internet chat contest, you might actually be able to understand the industry dynamics at play here.

 

[jcw]

wait did you just say AA is going to benefit from something - did you sleep last night

 

[Hope777]

Any Idea What Airline is behind the push to change the Rule?   Hint, its the Airline that controls 40% of the Slots, NOT AA which only has 28 %......
 
QUOTE
Discussions to lift the perimeter rule begain in 2014, according to unnamed sources cited by the Journal. Delta Air Lines, which stands to gain the most from the rule reversal, reportedly lobbied the Port Authority to initiate the change, though the airline has not commented on the matter. It already operates a flight from LaGuardia to Aruba on Saturdays. 
END QUOTE

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

like half a dozen other people on here, you think that getting even on an internet chat forum is more important that winning for your company.

But you don't even work for DL anymore.

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, some people aren't smart enough to distinguish their online hatred from someone from the reality that AA will gain from being able to operate long distance domestic flights from LGA.

maybe AA won't benefit as much as DL will, but to believe that AA will be against it because it can't be at the top of the heap is a problem that AA should have thought about with the merger and in the discussions about how the same person who agreed to a contract to give away 1/4 of the LGA slots should now be the CEO of the new AA.

AA will benefit.

they will just likely have to use other aircraft than the 321 from LGA