A A Aircraft Undershoots Denver Runway

[Winglet]

UALDC737 -
Disregard the FAR & short approach. I was thinking of something else. Unfortunately, I've been given short vectors in Denver and ATC shot us through the localizer, but in VMC, so no big deal. With the weather a bad as described, approach control should not be so aggressive. If its too busy, then screw-it, it's too busy. Unfortunately, I think everyone gets their fangs out and wants to help FAA and company managements shove 6 cows through a 1 cow gate at the same time. We should be throwing it back on the FAA, companies, and government to fix the system. Even still, it's still our responsiblity to JUST SAY NO when it STARTS to get stupid. The problem is, when stuff like this happens and you're trying to do ATC a favor, it usually backfires on you and you can be assured that nobody's gonna speak a whisper in your defense.

 

[AAviator]

This incident, the BDL incident, two Seattle landings on the taxiway, flight 587, Little Rock along with a string of others has me concerned about pilot training at AA. I intend to write Arpey a letter about these incidents. Just too many in too short a time period. I'm getting uncomforatble with AA's safety record.

[post="203977"][/post]​

Yo, L10, I guess since you're retired, we can throw stones, even if we live in glass houses.....

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=...A99IA249&akey=1


The media never caught this one, Strangely similar, yet.. Day VFR,... Snapped the left main off....
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MIA99IA249&rpt=fi

....AND
The captain "knew the F/O wasn't going to make a good landing"

LIT was more than 5 years ago, BDL approaching 10.

 

[luvn737s]

Didn't AA land a 727 at ORD so hard one of the engines separated from the pylon? Anyone remember the details?

 

[jimntx]

Didn't AA land a 727 at ORD so hard one of the engines separated from the pylon? Anyone remember the details?

[post="203990"][/post]​

Are you thinking of the DC-10 crash in 1979 caused by one engine and its pylon separating from the a/c on takeoff?

DC-10 crash at ORD

 

[smfav8r]

AAviator,

So you found two TW incidents....L10 forgot Cali and many more!

Obviously, no major airline is going to be free of accidents/incidents, BUT AA has had quite the string of pilot error incidents/accidents over the past 10 years...

just my .02!!!

 

[UALDC767]

UALDC737 -
Disregard the FAR & short approach. I was thinking of something else. Unfortunately, I've been given short vectors in Denver and ATC shot us through the localizer, but in VMC, so no big deal. With the weather a bad as described, approach control should not be so aggressive. If its too busy, then screw-it, it's too busy. Unfortunately, I think everyone gets their fangs out and wants to help FAA and company managements shove 6 cows through a 1 cow gate at the same time. We should be throwing it back on the FAA, companies, and government to fix the system. Even still, it's still our responsiblity to JUST SAY NO when it STARTS to get stupid. The problem is, when stuff like this happens and you're trying to do ATC a favor, it usually backfires on you and you can be assured that nobody's gonna speak a whisper in your defense.

[post="203980"][/post]​

Winglet....

I totally agree with the above.

Not knowing AA procedures, do they have stabilized approach criteria? i.e. minimum altitude for gear down and checklist done, fully configured and on speed/path?

DC

 

[AAviator]

AAviator,

So you found two TW incidents....L10 forgot Cali and many more!

Obviously, no major airline is going to be free of accidents/incidents, BUT AA has had quite the string of pilot error incidents/accidents over the past 10 years...

just my .02!!!

[post="204024"][/post]​

Yep, Just like TWA..
Touche

 

[TWAnr]

So you found two TW incidents....L10 forgot Cali and many more!

[post="204024"][/post]​

Actually, AAviator found two articles about the same incident.

 

[acmech]

We should'nt be jumping to conclusions about this incident. It is easy to be an armchair quaterback the day after something happens to an airline/aircraft. There are always one of two possible (or both) causes in any accident/incident: human error or mechanical error. Besides, did'nt Northwest park one off the end of a runway somewhere in Michigan a night or two ago?

 

[N924PS]

This incident, the BDL incident, two Seattle landings on the taxiway, flight 587, Little Rock along with a string of others has me concerned about pilot training at AA. I intend to write Arpey a letter about these incidents. Just too many in too short a time period. I'm getting uncomforatble with AA's safety record.

[post="203977"][/post]​

Don't forget to ask about rudder usage in upset training.

Nice article about AArpey in the latest FLYING magazine. He is also a licensed pilot.

 

[Winglet]

Winglet....

I totally agree with the above.

Not knowing AA procedures, do they have stabilized approach criteria? i.e. minimum altitude for gear down and checklist done, fully configured and on speed/path?

DC

[post="204040"][/post]​

Yes. Pretty standard, IAW FAA Orders, 1000AGL in IMC.

 

[luvn737s]

Are you thinking of the DC-10 crash in 1979 caused by one engine and its pylon separating from the a/c on takeoff?

DC-10 crash at ORD

[post="204015"][/post]​

No, this one was February 8, 1999. Landed short of 14R at ORD. 22 pax and 1 FA injured. NTSB file DCA98MA023. I found it after I asked.

 

[L1011Ret]

My concern was twofold, first why was the F/O flying in such weather? Do they have a procedure where the Captain flys when RVR less than 4000? Why was the approach not abandoned if the F/O is chasing localizer and glideslope? Is there not guidance that the approach be abandoned if it is not stabilized? Who was minding the store when the glideslope went out of sight meaning dangerously low?

Second, I was a check airmen for a number of years and on several occasions I have wondered about such things as the F/O using rudders in turbulence (587), the wacky altimeter setting procedure AA had or has, and the latest in this incident, why diden't the Captain take more aggressive action? I'm sure everybody has answers. I have none until I read the findings but I want to express my concern to the CEO.

 

[CapnCockroach]

Think AA should resurrect the "Clipper" names for aircraft.

 

[goingboeing]

Don't forget to ask about rudder usage in upset training.

Nice article about AArpey in the latest FLYING magazine. He is also a licensed pilot.

[post="204104"][/post]​

How much rudder to use in an upset condition is still a debate among professional pilots.There are very good pilots on boths sides of the coin.

Wayne Handley,professional aerobatic pilot and ex-25 year veteran ag pilot,teaches and demonstrates on his training video to use rudder to recover from the onset of a wing stall in a steep turn or rollover condition.In this condition lowering the aileron into the airstream compounds the drag on the wing thus increasing the wing stall.

I still say the aircraft certification process should require an effective rudder limiter so that the pilot cannot put the vertical stabilizer into an overstressed condition.