Flt 268 SEA-JFK diverted to ORD, off runway into grass

[Jager]

Why don't you change your screen name to Jack a$$, Jager... but then again, you'd be insulting a Jack a$$.

They had No thrust reverse, No anti skid, a bunch of electrical anomalies, regular PLUS standby instruments that were acting up, inop spoilers, and a bunch more stuff that was either inop or acting up.

But obviously, you'd do better.

Deleted by Moderator: No, namecalling please.

Awefully "testy" their Einstein... You must be a pilot... Been dealing with the "sky gods" for over 25 years..

Infact, some of these guys don't belong anywhere near a cockpit.. Remember the "tin man" 767 driver?


Fact is: Compete Electrical Failure, Standby Indication WAS WORKING.. The SkyGod landed 2500 feet down a 7500 foot runway.. Oppps!!! No Reversers. No Anti Skid. But brakes worked fine, nose gear steering A OK.. Rumor has it the Gods F uped using the stnby power and ran the batteries dead b4 landing.. Therefore losing the #1 Bus indication..Don't know for sure but the Feds impounded the bird.. Supposed to be released today..

So TFC?????? Mmmmmmmmmmmm "Totally Full of Chit" 767 driver?

Could very well be....Maybe!!

I'll keep yu posted on the results..

 

[tfc767]

Jager,

Smart folks will refrain from blaming until the facts are out. Your initial post put the blame on pilot error. All the input we've received is that the pilots did an outstanding job with a crippled bird. Nobody knows why the battery was completely discharged, but so far this crew followed the QRH exactly as they were supposed to. Now the 75/76 fleet has a new pink bulletin coming out to address this issue.

Sorry if I came off a little harshly but nothing rattles my sword more than folks who jump to conclusions without all the facts.

Regards,
tfc

 

[Mach85ER]

Awefully "testy" their Einstein... You must be a pilot... Been dealing with the "sky gods" for over 25 years..

Infact, some of these guys don't belong anywhere near a cockpit.. Remember the "tin man" 767 driver?


Fact is: Compete Electrical Failure, Standby Indication WAS WORKING.. The SkyGod landed 2500 feet down a 7500 foot runway.. Oppps!!! No Reversers. No Anti Skid. But brakes worked fine, nose gear steering A OK.. Rumor has it the Gods F uped using the stnby power and ran the batteries dead b4 landing.. Therefore losing the #1 Bus indication..Don't know for sure but the Feds impounded the bird.. Supposed to be released today..

So TFC?????? Mmmmmmmmmmmm "Totally Full of Chit" 767 driver?

Could very well be....Maybe!!

I'll keep yu posted on the results..

Jager,
You're out of line. First ,when you slandered the pilots with your "pilot error" post and second with your lack of systems knowledge and what goes on in the cockpit.

Typically, after any incident, those with "keyboard" courage and little else tend to make statements like yours. From my point of view, I've been there, late at night, max weight takeoff, and all three instrument systems are giving 3 different readings, plus 15+ annunciators illuminate suddenly near V1, which now isn't accurately known.

Your call Mr Knowledge.
- Do you abort the T.O. and run off the end since the anti-skid is "T.U." and you think the brakes "work fine".
- Do you rotate at an erroneus speed (too low) and mush off the end and into an obstruction?
- Do you use your superb intellect to decide which 2 of 3 incorrect instruments are wrong to continue flying?

You have about 2.5 seconds to make the call. Thinks happen a little different at 195 mph with 220 people riding on 65 tons of jet fuel.

There are 2 757's sitting on the bottom of the ocean after having similar problems as the above. No group is perfect, including those holding the yokes, as well as those holding the torque wrenches. I'll wait until the adults come back with an in depth report.

 

[Observer]

Those that are not aware of all the facts should just keep quiet............some of the postings on this subject prove once again that even though one has an email account and can type (probably the hunt and peck system) doesn't mean one should put his thoughts in writing. Let the NTSB do their business and leave the speculation to the stock market..............

 

[Jager]

Got a bit more info on 5FG..

First off.. I apologize to the pilot types I may offended.. Actually I applaud the actions of the flight crew for their abilities after the self induced anomaly.
I too am a pilot and a tech..

Apparently the K106 relay failed and all the AC and DC buses went dead.. Stby power was activated, unfortunately the time requirement to reach ORD exceeded the draw capacity of the DC NiCad capability

Here's the interesting part

After landing with a hand full and skidding it off the runway.. They could not shut the engines down.. Fire handles pulled but with no 28Vdc, the spar valves won't close.. No cables here!! That might explain why the slides weren't deployed..

What puzzles me is that the EEC each have a dedicated generator for the FFG to operate normally in case of a total electrical failure. I've read 73-21-00-0 and it does not indicate if the FFG cutoff valve circuit is energized via the DG. Seems to me it should be.. But then again 28vdc is required to do a battery start.. System diagrams do not verify S/O circuit operation with the DG.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..

I have to dig a little deeper on this one..

Cheers fellas!

 

[Mach85ER]

Got a bit more info on 5FG..

First off.. I apologize to the pilot types I may offended.. Actually I applaud the actions of the flight crew for their abilities after the self induced anomaly.
I too am a pilot and a tech..

Since you're "full" of information and piloting skills (in turbine aircraft no doubt <_< );

Could you describe the steps leading up to "self induced".

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/200...TSB-OHare_N.htm

The pilots had switched to battery power shortly after leaving Seattle when electrical problems developed. The batteries last for about 30 minutes, but the pilots continued toward their destination until the jet's electrical systems began failing about an hour and 40 minutes later.


WTF.... we're they thinking.

 

[chris perry]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/200...TSB-OHare_N.htm

The pilots had switched to battery power shortly after leaving Seattle when electrical problems developed. The batteries last for about 30 minutes, but the pilots continued toward their destination until the jet's electrical systems began failing about an hour and 40 minutes later.


WTF.... we're they thinking.

Im sure they were in touch with tech service during all of this.I would love to hear the recorded conversations.

 

[1AA]

Yea the conversation might have gone something like this.

American 268 from A/C maintenance in Tulsa do you copy?

Go ahead you got 268....

Yes, sir can you tell me where you are based??

268, that would be ORD..

OK sir be advised if you continue to ORD you battery will go flat...

268, no problem.

Uh, 268 I advise you find alternate ASAP.

268, ORD is a good alternate.

268, that is kind of far.....

Not a problem I can do it.

And the rest is all history.

SATIRE of course.

I read the preliminary report from the NTSB and it sounds bad for the flight crew.
If it turns out to be that the flight crew made a bad judgement call and did not follow proper emergency procedures this could lead to more repocussion.

TIME will tell...

 

[Jager]

Haha.. 1AA... good analogy...

I guess that reinforces my intial post..

 

[CubsFanJohn]

Why would ANYONE continue flying on Battery Power???? I would have just landed the bird or even refused to fly until they fixed it.

 

[tfc767]

Guys, guys, guys.... don't jump to conclusions. Above all, the fact that you are putting faith in a USA Today article on an airline incident is even more telling. They don't know squat when it comes to facts - just what story is most sensational.

The pilots followed the QRH to the letter. Problem is, the QRH can lead one down the wrong path if it is an instance of multiple failures, which is what they had. My guess is they didn't realize the battery charger was out, after being led down an incorrect path by the QRH. The QRH does NOT have the fix to every possible scenario that can happen, and with multiple failures, there are instances where one can become a test pilot. Believe me when I say NO PILOT in his/her right mind would EVER continue a flight on battery power alone.

Let's let the official investigation come to a conclusion before we jump to any. In the mean time, any newspaper account is the LAST place I would go for facts.

tfc

 

[Jager]

Here is the link to the NTSB prelim report..

It indicates that there was an issue whether the battery chargers were charging the batteries in the stby position..

Good Reading

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...03940&key=1

 

[Observer]

My first guess would be that they(backups) failed. No one deliberately goes into the grass and blows all those tires. This airplane obviously had some pretty bad mechanical issues. Looks like the pilots had a major struggle on their hands.

WRONG!!!!

 

[1AA]

Here is the link to the NTSB prelim report..

It indicates that there was an issue whether the battery chargers were charging the batteries in the stby position..

Good Reading

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...03940&key=1

Whether the battery chargers were charging or not if that is all you have left to power up the aircraft you do not continue to fly for one hour and forty minutes. You look for a place to land quickly. You have no redundancy left at this point. YOU LAND ASAP.
NO Excuses..