Tim Nelson
Veteran
I think most of us fleet service don't find it odd at all why the IAM didn't challenge this.
Tim Nelson
IAM LC 1487
Tim Nelson
IAM LC 1487
35 MILLIOM $$$$
- Thread starter fatherabraham
- Start date
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
[blockquote]
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On 2/26/2003 5:56:07 PM avek00 wrote:
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I wish you wouldn't have brought that up; but since you did....
When wolf came on board in 1996 USAirways was already reporting profits in the "black", if you can recall second quarter of 1995. And since folks want to give W&G some kind of rcognition of some sort, I am sure you know that the LATE 90s was a huge "boom" for the entire industry, including poor TWA who for the first time in 1998 had reported a measely net of $1 million. Not bad for an airline who was sinking to oblivion before AA bought them. How I know this? I was trading airline stock (don't laugh) AA, UA, and U and Alaska Airlines, trying to make a quick buck. Not only our industry, but most industries were soaring to the top, and our economy was at the peak of a "boom". Let's not forget in 98, the stock buy back that wolf engaged hedging bets on a merger, never hedging any fuel, and letting Metro Jet get kicked off the BWI map by SW. But that's ok, he got to stay on board long enough to bring in the folks who we are so definitely sure "will save the f%$*#@# day".
You had to be an absolute bumbling business idiot if you couldn't make money in the late 90s, of course IMO.
So much for praise....
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On 2/26/2003 5:56:07 PM avek00 wrote:
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I wish you wouldn't have brought that up; but since you did....
When wolf came on board in 1996 USAirways was already reporting profits in the "black", if you can recall second quarter of 1995. And since folks want to give W&G some kind of rcognition of some sort, I am sure you know that the LATE 90s was a huge "boom" for the entire industry, including poor TWA who for the first time in 1998 had reported a measely net of $1 million. Not bad for an airline who was sinking to oblivion before AA bought them. How I know this? I was trading airline stock (don't laugh) AA, UA, and U and Alaska Airlines, trying to make a quick buck. Not only our industry, but most industries were soaring to the top, and our economy was at the peak of a "boom". Let's not forget in 98, the stock buy back that wolf engaged hedging bets on a merger, never hedging any fuel, and letting Metro Jet get kicked off the BWI map by SW. But that's ok, he got to stay on board long enough to bring in the folks who we are so definitely sure "will save the f%$*#@# day".
You had to be an absolute bumbling business idiot if you couldn't make money in the late 90s, of course IMO.
So much for praise....
Avek00 wrote:
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
DCAflyer replies:
I think you would be hard-pressed to find an industry analyst willing to give them an overall grade above D-. Fleet rationalization... okay, I'll give them that even though our fleet age required that it be updated, Boeing was refusing to do business with WolfGang, and LUV had figured out the rationalization thang 25 years earlier.
So puting rationalization in the plus column, let's look at the negatives. Metrojet. No attention paid to lopsided east-coast hub structure. Few people on the west coast knowing that US Airways even exists anymore. Cost issues not addressed. Revenue issues not addressed. The better part of two years spent on an attempted merger that had little chance of gaining Federal approval in the first place (and where, by the way, the two of them stood to financially gain exponentially more than any other person or entity) during said two-year term Dumb and Dumber paid little or no attention to the day-to-day operation of the airline. Want more... how about retrofitting A330 aircraft with F class sleeper seats only to appease Gangrene's buddies at AirIndia. And what about WolfGang flying around in private jets. And let's not forget paying NO attention to tomorrow, figuring that someone will inherit the problems of their mismanagement. How about pulling up stakes any time LUV set up a significant presence in a U station, or, at the opposite end of that spectrum, starting MJ with smaller, more costly, less efficient A/C and bringing that low-fare strucure into markets previously unserved by LUV or AT/Valuejet, especially puting MJ into LGA (what was THAT about?).
So, yeah, maybe theyv'e done one or two good things. But a D- is still an F in my book.
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
DCAflyer replies:
I think you would be hard-pressed to find an industry analyst willing to give them an overall grade above D-. Fleet rationalization... okay, I'll give them that even though our fleet age required that it be updated, Boeing was refusing to do business with WolfGang, and LUV had figured out the rationalization thang 25 years earlier.
So puting rationalization in the plus column, let's look at the negatives. Metrojet. No attention paid to lopsided east-coast hub structure. Few people on the west coast knowing that US Airways even exists anymore. Cost issues not addressed. Revenue issues not addressed. The better part of two years spent on an attempted merger that had little chance of gaining Federal approval in the first place (and where, by the way, the two of them stood to financially gain exponentially more than any other person or entity) during said two-year term Dumb and Dumber paid little or no attention to the day-to-day operation of the airline. Want more... how about retrofitting A330 aircraft with F class sleeper seats only to appease Gangrene's buddies at AirIndia. And what about WolfGang flying around in private jets. And let's not forget paying NO attention to tomorrow, figuring that someone will inherit the problems of their mismanagement. How about pulling up stakes any time LUV set up a significant presence in a U station, or, at the opposite end of that spectrum, starting MJ with smaller, more costly, less efficient A/C and bringing that low-fare strucure into markets previously unserved by LUV or AT/Valuejet, especially puting MJ into LGA (what was THAT about?).
So, yeah, maybe theyv'e done one or two good things. But a D- is still an F in my book.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/25/2003 6:27:07 PM PITbull wrote:
mrplanes,
Can you give any explanation WHY ALPA MEC did not bring this information out to its members? I found out today that All Union leaders who participated on the Creditors committee (which ALPA did and had a vote) did NOT CHALLENGE THIS in court? I have already posed this to our MEC at AFA and I want answers on why this knowledge was held from the AFA MEC by the International.
If IAM or ALPA reps can explain their silence please do.
You have to think why would union leaders not devuldge this info to the membership???? And, I mean you have to really think?? Who were they trying to save?
----------------
[/blockquote]
I think most of us fleet service don't find it odd at all why the IAM didn't challenge this.
Tim Nelson
IAM LC 1487
----------------
On 2/25/2003 6:27:07 PM PITbull wrote:
mrplanes,
Can you give any explanation WHY ALPA MEC did not bring this information out to its members? I found out today that All Union leaders who participated on the Creditors committee (which ALPA did and had a vote) did NOT CHALLENGE THIS in court? I have already posed this to our MEC at AFA and I want answers on why this knowledge was held from the AFA MEC by the International.
If IAM or ALPA reps can explain their silence please do.
You have to think why would union leaders not devuldge this info to the membership???? And, I mean you have to really think?? Who were they trying to save?
----------------
[/blockquote]
I think most of us fleet service don't find it odd at all why the IAM didn't challenge this.
Tim Nelson
IAM LC 1487
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/26/2003 5:56:07 PM avek00 wrote:
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Saved? They put us in this situation, Metrojet, Exortion and threats for negotiations, wasting almost $2 billion in cash to buy back stock which is now worthless and let us not forget the failed merger and niether of them running the company for 18 months to just let it flounder!
----------------
On 2/26/2003 5:56:07 PM avek00 wrote:
Folks, give it a rest.
W&G certainly committed more than a few sins over the past few years, but let's face fact: their management expertise SAVED US Airways in the mid-to-late 1990s when many said that "US Scare" couldn't make it. And lest we forget, the Airbus fleet plan and system rationalization began under their watch; without these tools, Siegel couldn't have done squat to restructure US, either inside or outside of BK.
Again, they are not saints, but it's not worth fighting over their reward for at least keeping US alive into the 21st century, IMHO.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Saved? They put us in this situation, Metrojet, Exortion and threats for negotiations, wasting almost $2 billion in cash to buy back stock which is now worthless and let us not forget the failed merger and niether of them running the company for 18 months to just let it flounder!
To: RowUnderDC: Considering this company's cash position, three people should not absorb $35 million," said Roy Freundlich, spokesman for the US Airways chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association.
Freundlich said the airline should exercise its right under bankruptcy law to retrieve the funds. The law allows for retrieval of payments made outside the normal course of business.
It is my understanding this applies to all...
Freundlich said the airline should exercise its right under bankruptcy law to retrieve the funds. The law allows for retrieval of payments made outside the normal course of business.
It is my understanding this applies to all...
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
The Air India/FC seats deal is a nasty rumour. More likely, they were ordered with three classes because, at least at the time, United Airlines and Star Alliance required a three-class cabin.
