$305 Million 2Q Profit

[TheNewLowFare]

I don't understand why the threads here always turns negative. It's pretty sad !

We need to all work together, not fight with one another. Save your energy for fighting a better contract, not with yourselves.

I might just stay away from this board for good. I never seem to read anything positive here.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

stew, why stoop to their level? Sounds like this person wanted to stir the pot. Don't worry the reasonable west people know darn good and well the easties are good people. We got your back. And the same should go for the reasonable easties having our back. These flamers will be policed better by their own if you know what I mean. So let's kick their arse together and stop giving them what the want.

H-E-L-L-O This Was Exactly My Point!

 

[Todd B]

:cop:
Lets return to the original topic and avoid the insults. IpourNotCan will be spending a week in the cornfield due to their potty mouth.

 

[awausairtech]

PITbull, In the west defence, The contracts we have are only the first or second for some groups and some did not even get the contract in before the merger. Because DP and the boys stalled all talks to keep wages down and to force this drawn out union voting in witch the company is the only winner.
YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT ANY UNIONS FRIST OR SECOND CONTRACT WILL NOT BE A UPS OR AS GOOD AS SOME OF THE USAIR CONTRACTS THAT TOOK YEARS TO GET AND DAYS FOR A BK JUDGE TO DISTROY!

Have a nice day PITbull.

 

[hp_fa]

Actually it's not a load. Maybe the part about HP being Ghetto is, but the part regarding the F/A's at East is not.

You should understand that a huge part of the reason FFOCUS members have remained loyal is the front line staff.

Frankly I have very high expectations and I'm not sure the HP frontliners are up to the task. I take no pleasure in saying this. Just my observation to date. I have now called Customer Relations in Tempe MORE times in the last 6 months then I have called US Consumer Affairs in the last 6 YEARS!

I have quite a few segments coming up on HP metal and assuming I clear the upgrade list I'll be in first and I'll do a few Trip Reports. If I get ANY of this half Mini crap or serive less than I'm accustomed to on US east it will probably be the straw that breaks the Camel's back and I'll be gone.

Between the abortion known as usairways.com and Customer Relations to date the reasons to stay are fewer and fewer.

Bob:

The portion of the post I quoted was directed at the "ghetto" remark. That was so far from reality that it needed a response. Quite a few westies are feeling severely screwed (without a kiss) over this whole thing. We wonder what could have been for AWA had Doug spent more time actually trying to do what he was hired to do, run AWA, rather then fatten his bank account and those of selected investors at the expense of the westies.

As for the 1/2 mini thing, I defy you to find that it happens. I don't believe Mr. J&J and his assertion regarding that occurance without any reasonable rationale about how/why it might have occurred if it occurred. I simply don't.

West was making money when the merger occurred andfor the period that preceeded it. We were running a good airline tha was providing what our customers wanted. The customers were generally happy. Trust me, if this merger and its implications to westies had not occurred I would still be working. But once I saw the writing on the wall I decided I had had enough, so I decided to stop dealing with folks who promised not to do anything to hurt employees and then turn around and do exactly that.

Now to IPourNotCan if you are reading this...

IMO, you went a bit too far, but I understand it. Trust me, I wanted to use a term stronger then "crap" to describe my thoughts, but I didn't want to visit the cornfield. Anyway, I look forward to your return and hope all is well.

 

[PITbull]

The goal of the company is to have all labor unions included in the profit sharing. It will be upto the Unions whether or not they will make it part of the contract. West Non-union employees already participate in a different program also based on profitability but is distributed based on annual gross pay. We've had 2 nice payouts in the past 4 years. This applies to grade 23 and above. 5% of gross annual pay for non-supervisors, 7% for supervisors, and I think 10% for managers. Grade 23 and below have got guarenteed pay raises in luei of bonuses (one bird in the hand is better than two in the bush philosophy).

Since Dougie is not giving any wage increase to any labor group on any level, the AFA MEC East voted to share their profit sharing with the West f/as. That's what I was just informed of by the MECP of East. The west f/as do not have profits sharing in their contract.

Do the East f/as know this has occured?

So, the way I see it, the only way the West f/as will get any increase is through the East provision, and the East will have to take less in order to share it with West.

 

[700UW]

I would think a lawsuit is in order, contractually the MEC cannot just change the terms of the AFA/US CBA. Sounds like a violation of the RLA.

If I was the FAs at East I would be burning up Pat Friend's phone, mail and E-mail.

Your MEC at East just stole your money just like Siegel, Lakefield and Glass did.

I see a massive DFR Lawsuit on the horizon.

 

[PITbull]

I agree with the sentiment, and if I were on the MEC, I would have voted "no". I believe that the EAST MEC has basically left Dougie and team off the hook with negotiating transitional wage increases. Whoever convinced the East MEC to give up portions of the f/a profit sharing has screwed the East, and weakend the leverage of the West negotiations for enhancements on their own. The East MEC, IMO, took from the East profit sharing % and gave basically an increase to the West 2,900 f/as when that should have been Dougie's job to reward his people with their own provision for profit sharing. Though a noble gesture, the pot just shrunk for the f/as, and the East just took another concession.

There is no incentive for the company to move on negotiating transitional provisions that create any enhancement, other than, taking it from the EAST to make it cost neutral. No doubt,the EAST MEC has opened that path, and I am quite disappointed.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I don't understand why the threads here always turns negative.

For the same reason that blended second marriages never work.

According to About US, cargo was 37.

Mainline revenue was 2,186.

Express revenue was 780.

All expressed in millions.

Nice addition.

Cargo revenue was therefore about 3% of mainline revenue. All of that must have been on 700UW's 767s....the old rickety ones which now, according to some, contstitute the grand career expectations I could only dream about 15 months ago.

 

[700UW]

International Freight is big business, Cargo companies have to book space on US' Flights as the demand is higher then the capacity.

The A330 and 767s are loaded to the max on the European and Carribean flights, why do you think US flies an A330 daily from PHL-SJU-PHL, one word C A R G O!

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Whoever convinced the East MEC to give up portions of the f/a profit sharing has screwed the East, and weakend the leverage of the West negotiations for enhancements on their own. The East MEC, IMO, took from the East profit sharing % and gave basically an increase to the West 2,900 f/as when that should have been Dougie's job to reward his people with their own provision for profit sharing. Though a noble gesture, the pot just shrunk for the f/as, and the East just took another concession.

Pitbull, isn't the FA union working on a transition agreement that could/will include profit sharing for all FAs both East and West? Doesn't make sense that the East "gave up" some of their profit sharing for the West if a transition agreement is put into place by years end that includes profit sharing. Besides without the merger there wouldn't be any profits at the end of year to divide for the East. If what your saying plays out to where the East really gives up some of their earned profit sharing to the West...well score one for the Union for taking care of all of their members. This is the way Unions should behave and not battering opposing Union brothers/sisters. Negotiating a better contract is a whole nother issue. If I were negotiating for the Union, I would not allow the company to use profit sharing to take away other important benefits or substancial pay. It should be argued that profit sharing offered by the company should be used to bring about peace and turn morale upwards. Profit sharing is of much value to the company...as much so as it is to the employees. It will strengthen loyalty and performance of the employees and make the company stronger. That should be driven home in negotiations.

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull, isn't the FA union working on a transition agreement that could/will include profit sharing for all FAs both East and West? Doesn't make sense that the East "gave up" some of their profit sharing for the West if a transition agreement is put into place by years end that includes profit sharing. Besides without the merger there wouldn't be any profits at the end of year to divide for the East. If what your saying plays out to where the East really gives up some of their earned profit sharing to the West...well score one for the Union for taking care of all of their members. This is the way Unions should behave and not battering opposing Union brothers/sisters. Negotiating a better contract is a whole nother issue. If I were negotiating for the Union, I would not allow the company to use profit sharing to take away other important benefits or substancial pay. It should be argued that profit sharing offered by the company should be used to bring about peace and turn morale upwards. Profit sharing is of much value to the company...as much so as it is to the employees. It will strengthen loyalty and performance of the employees and make the company stronger. That should be driven home in negotiations.

I can agree with most of what you posted (for once).

But, you missed the main point of the issue of why I even brought the obvious up. Dougie is only willing to negotiate a transition agreement that is completely "cost neutral". Meaning, he will operate the airline separately. If there is no intergration or transition agreements with labor groups, the company can not fully merge. Dougie has said that he is willing to operate the airline separately. Unless he's just posturing, the full synergies will not be realized without transition ratified agreements. What you don't realize is that the "profit sharing" % was in direct correlation with the % of concessions given during 2004, BEFORE ANY MERGER WAS ANNOUNCED and BEFORE anyone was even whispering AWA.

His and obviously Glass' idea of negotiations is translated to this... any possible enhancement can not be given to both East and West...its either one or the other, TAKING one from the other as he obviously convinced the joint negotiating committee to do, who went and convinced the East MEC to vote on altering the East profit sharing provision for the fa/s.

THIS WAS GROSSLY WRONG TO THE 10TH DEGREE. By taking the same East contractual % of "profit sharing" and sharing it with almost 3,000 more f/as from the West, and the company not increasing that % so that the $ amount would translate to the same has imposed another concession for the East f/as for that inclusion. In other words, the piece of the pie just got majorly reduced for the East. If you and others can't see that, then I can understand why many excuse this management for their blatant disregard and underhandedness.

I can guarantee that the majority of the East f/as have no idea this vote went down earlier this year.

 

[Crzipilot]

Since Dougie is not giving any wage increase to any labor group on any level, the AFA MEC East voted to share their profit sharing with the West f/as. That's what I was just informed of by the MECP of East. The west f/as do not have profits sharing in their contract.

Do the East f/as know this has occured?

So, the way I see it, the only way the West f/as will get any increase is through the East provision, and the East will have to take less in order to share it with West.

Kinda off topic, BUT, I believe Dougie, said they increased the rates for rampers in PHX??? also at the express carriers there have been some increases to desk jobs (dispatchers and such) Dougie has held true though, he will pay market rates, when those rates can't retain or attract the people, he'll raise the rates. (I believe Ornstein made this comment awhile ago) So oh well.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

THIS WAS GROSSLY WRONG TO THE 10TH DEGREE. By taking the same East contractual % of "profit sharing" and sharing it with almost 3,000 more f/as from the West, and the company not increasing that % so that the $ amount would translate to the same has imposed another concession for the East f/as for that inclusion. In other words, the piece of the pie just got majorly reduced for the East. If you and others can't see that, then I can understand why many excuse this management for their blatant disregard and underhandedness.

Pitbull, I can see your point, but here is a counterpoint:

Without the West in the picture there would be no profit sharing for the East right? I assume there was none for the East in 2004 or 2005? While the amount may be diluted by 33% or so (provided the ratio of East vs West FAs is 3:1) profits of the combined company would increase (in theory) by at least 33%. This figure is somewhat conservative because it's a linear equation, not an exponential equation (a true synergenic relationship leans more towards an exponential figure...a team of six people will produce more that three people + three people...its more like 3 people X 3 people). How the negotiations were approached back in Jan only those involved know, but if I were an East FA I wouldn't begrudge the Union for allowing the West FAs to participate in the profit sharing for the year 2006 and beyond. Unless my logic doesn't hold water of course. Seems pretty tight, but I've been wrong before.

 

[PITbull]

Eric,

Your equation doesn't hold water, indeed. The East operation was responsible for at least 70% of that profit being that the East operation is much larger than the West. Wouldn't you agree?

Here is the East f/a contractual formula during concessionary bargaining: (not the West)

10% of the Company's pre-tax year end profits go into the profit sharing pool for all labor groups.
AFA portion of the pool is 14.5%. This figure is established by the percentage of the annual average concessions AFA gave in relation to the total concessions given by all labor groups.
Each individual Flight Attendants share is determined by such Flight Attendants gross W-2 earnings divided by the gross W-2 earnings of all eligible Flight Attendants.
That factor is divided into the amount of money in AFA's share of the profit pool and the result is each individual's share of the profit pool.

This is a quote from the East MEC President, Mike in an E-line yesterday:

AFA average annual concession amount is $154.7 million. The total average annual concessions by all labor is $1.082 BILLION meaning our part of the total concessions is 14.5%
14.5% of $30 million is $4.35 million. Let's stop right there for a minute and examine that figure a bit more closely. We made an investment in the salvation of US Airways which led to the merger which led to the profit. We gave up an annual amount in excess of $154 million in pay, benefits and work rules and will get back in return only $4.35 million. That, my friends is only a return of 2.82% on our annual investment of $154 million. I can do better than that on a six-month Certificate of Deposit at the Credit Union.

He goes on to write:

"Since the individual profit share amount is based on each Flight Attendants gross W-2, I will, for simplicity, assume we all make the same amount - let's say $ 35,000 per year and use a figure of 8,000 total Flight Attendants. Each individual share would, all things being equal, be $543.75 before taxes ($4.35 million divided by 8000). It is true that this is $543.75 (before taxes) more than each of us has now but hardly an adequate return on our investment.

We deserve more and will expect nothing less. We will share in this merger or there will be no real merger.

This example is illustrative in nature and does not factor in two components in determining each share. The first is obviously everyone will not have the same year end W-2 amount. The second is that AFA has the latitude to determine whether those Flight Attendants who had W-2 earnings during the year but retired or took the VFLR are to be considered eligible. The MEC will meet in late August to consider that question.


Where in the f/a East E-line did he say that the East MEC voted earlier this year to take that 14.5% of the profit sharing pool and share it with 3,000 more f/as from the West????
Answer: No where.

And the f/a amount of concessions was just for concession #3. This amount does not include the other two previous concessions. The profit sharing % was only negotiated for the concessions give in #3. So, you can see, the MAJOR sacrifice given by the East driven by a whopping $1 billion more for this particular concession.

I suggest the f/as write to their LECPs on this one and ask for their logic in voting to subject the East to yet another concession for the sake of this merger of labor leaving the company off the hook to negotiate a separate West profit sharing.

Here is the easy way to understand what happened in laymen terms...I'd rather split a lotto pot of 4 million with 5,000 people rather than 8,000.

Wouldn't you agree?

Keep in mind that certain select MEC members have a much larger W-2 as the real kick in the butt. Could the ETB flying be included in this total W-2?

I should just not even look at this crap anymore its just so fruastrating to view...and it angers the hell out of me that the f/as from the East are still expected to continue to give these kinds of concessions with no real thought of the financial impact it has.