$305 Million 2Q Profit

[ilg30/7]

I'm talking facts, my friend, not some hypothetical whether East would have made more or less a profit without a merger. Thats your conjecture, purely guessing that West is so profitable as a stand alone. You may have the management, but in the LCC its considered a Wholly-owned currently. The operation on the East is much larger than on the West...yes-no?

In order for your scenario to make any sense, you would have to separate the operation. That shouldn't be that hard to do since the operations have not merged...JUST THE PROFIT SHARING FROM THE EAST CONTRACTS!!!

And since we are making guesses here let me weigh one in...I bet that 85% of the profit CAME FROM THE EAST OPERATION...AS THEY HAVE THE INTERNATIONAL.

???? I'm a bit confused, as I was responding to YOUR conjecture as to what would happen if USAirways were to merge with a 3rd airline. As to the facts of the 2nd quarter profit, the figures are readily availible.

The East had a profit of $246 million, and the West had a profit of $68 million. That equates to a percentage of 78% for the East operation, and 22% from the West. In fact, the operations are saperated. For YOUR scenario to make any sense, the East profit sharing amount would be taken as a percentage of the $246 million, vs. the combined amount from the two carriers. I'm, sure Doug and co. would be quite happy with this scenario, since the West has no profit sharing as part of their f/a contract, and therefore the total payout from the company to the employees would be less.

 

[PITbull]

???? I'm a bit confused, as I was responding to YOUR conjecture as to what would happen if USAirways were to merge with a 3rd airline. As to the facts of the 2nd quarter profit, the figures are readily availible.

The East had a profit of $246 million, and the West had a profit of $68 million. That equates to a percentage of 78% for the East operation, and 22% from the West. In fact, the operations are saperated. For YOUR scenario to make any sense, the East profit sharing amount would be taken as a percentage of the $246 million, vs. the combined amount from the two carriers. I'm, sure Doug and co. would be quite happy with this scenario, since the West has no profit sharing as part of their f/a contract, and therefore the total payout from the company to the employees would be less.

Not necessarily at all. You know how to multiply and divide right?

So, it shows what a son of a b**** he really is doesn't it? Won't think to give his employees from the West 14.5% of $68 million...

Regardless, if the East made 78-80% of that profit, than their provision (East f/as) calls for 14.5% to be divided according to each f/as w-2. That's the amount Dougie should be paying the East; not adding 3,000 more to the equation by only adding $68 million.

The blame is squarely on him, and I disrespect his position and plainly shows what kind of Exec he is. :down: And I can see that the only increase the West could achieve was from the East contract provision that obviously, Dougie is glad to have them share. After all, he doesn't have to go back and say to the WEST, you have no profit sharing in your contract; therefore you get nothing, A-GAIN!

I trust their would have been some major anarchy if that were the case, and since the vote had to come from the East MEC, I would have fostered campaigning for a NO vote on the East MEC in sharing that provision with any group... forcing Dougie to look like the AZZE he is to the folks who drink his kool-aid

So, pray tell, what do the wholly owns get...let me guess NOTHING?

 

[ilg30/7]

Not necessarily at all. You know how to multiply and divide right?

So, it shows what a son of a b**** he really is doesn't it? Won't think to give his employees from the West 14.5% of $68 million...

Regardless, if the East made 78-80% of that profit, than their provision (East f/as) calls for 14.5% to be divided according to each f/as w-2. That's the amount Dougie should be paying the East; not adding 3,000 more to the equation by only adding $68 million.

The blame is squarely on him, and I disrespect his position and plainly shows what kind of Exec he is. :down: And I can see that the only increase the West could achieve was from the East contract provision that obviously, Dougie is glad to have them share. After all, he doesn't have to go back and say to the WEST, you have no profit sharing in your contract; therefore you get nothing, A-GAIN!

I trust ther would e some major anarchy.

But the question is 14.5% of what profit? The East stand alone numbers? You seem to be arguing the East should receive 14.5% of the total profit, and the West should also receive 14.5% of the total profit, separately. A great deal for f/a's, to be sure, as their total percentage as a whole would be far more then 14.5 %. I certainly won't get into dicussing if they deserve that amount, siince IMO they probably deserve that and more, but I'm not sure that is a realistic end game.

 

[PITbull]

But the question is 14.5% of what profit? The East stand alone numbers? You seem to be arguing the East should receive 14.5% of the total profit, and the West should also receive 14.5% of the total profit, separately. A great deal for f/a's, to be sure, as their total percentage as a whole would be far more then 14.5 %. I certainly won't get into dicussing if they deserve that amount, siince IMO they probably deserve that and more, but I'm not sure that is a realistic end game.

That's not what I posted...read it again.

AFA's14.5% contract language that entails the Net annual profit labor pie! If it needed to be separated, since there are separate contracts with every group East/West, then that is the way it should have been. Pilots are to receive no less than 36%. Are they splitting their's with the West pilot group? And what about other labor groups?

Keep in mind, are entitlement to profit sharing was not because the company had a big heart...it was tied to concession #3 of $1.083 billion from labor.

What concessions did the West give to entitle them to profit sharing using the same principle and intent in the East provision?

 

[ilg30/7]

AFA's14.5% contract language that entails the Net annual profit labor pie! If it needed to be separated, since there are separate contracts with every group East/West, then that is the way it should have been. Pilots are to receive no less than 36%, are they splitting there's with the West pilot group?

It's a fairly important distinction, since if it was in fact separated, the total amount the company paid out would have been less, albeit devided among fewer f/a's. I haven't done the math to see if the East f/a's would come out ahead in that scenario, but I know the West f/a's would come out a lot worse.

I honestly don't know about the pilots, but I would ask: if you had indeed fostered a no vote when the East MEC was presented with this scenario - do you not think that would have helped foster East v West resentment, and played right into the company's hands?

 

[PITbull]

I honestly don't know about the pilots, but I would ask: if you had indeed fostered a no vote when the East MEC was presented with this scenario - do you not think that would have helped foster East v West resentment, and played right into the company's hands?

NO. I believe that the issue of contractual profit sharing in the East provision is the only reason the East is entitled to anything, which is tied directly to the concessions given by AFA, concesions given by ALPA, concessions given by IAM and related, concessions given by CWA etc..

This was not a provision to share. If that is the case, why doesn't the West share their vacation days (more than East has) and their "Medical benefits at employee contribtution for medical leaves up to 2 years" with the East????

The profit sharing for the West needed to come from Dougie and Company. Period. He is not off the hook, and AFA should not leave him off the hook. Dougie is trying to get them use to swapping provisions so that the "net" result is cost nuetral. I KNOW THESE CHARACTERS BEFORE THEY CAN COME OUT OF THE BATHROOM AND ZIP UP. THEY'RE PREPARING THE GROUP FOR THIS CONCEPT and the East is buying it hook-line-and sinker.

The East MEC took it upon themselves to make it "their problem" and it should never had gone down that path.

 

[ilg30/7]

NO. I believe that the issue of contractual profit sharing in the East provision is the only reason the East is entitled to anything, which is tied directly to the concessions given by AFA, concesions given by ALPA, concessions given by IAM and related, concessions given by CWA etc..

This was not a provision to share. If that is the case, why doesn't the West share their vacation days (more than East has) and their "Medical benefits at employee contribtution for medical leaves up to 2 years" with the East????

The profit sharing for the West needed to come from Dougie and Company. Period. He is not off the hook, and AFA should not leave him off the hook.

The East MEC took it upon themselves to make it "their problem" and it should never had gone down that path.

Interesting. You raise many valid points, but I still think that the ire of the West f/a's would have been at best equally divided between the company and the East AFA. I'm sure the company would have made it very well known that they made an offer of extending profit sharing to the West f/a's, and AFA East turned it down. 17 years later, and we are still divided over AL/PI/PSA, even though those contracts were, to a general extent, incorporated with the best provisions of each. I honestly have no idea how the true integration of cultures is going to work here.

 

[PITbull]

Interesting. You raise many valid points, but I still think that the ire of the West f/a's would have been at best equally divided between the company and the East AFA. I'm sure the company would have made it very well known that they made an offer of extending profit sharing to the West f/a's, and AFA East turned it down. 17 years later, and we are still divided over AL/PI/PSA, even though those contracts were, to a general extent, incorporated with the best provisions of each. I honestly have no idea how the true integration of cultures is going to work here.

One step at a time...

First, Dougie needs to GIVE the West f/as their raises they deserve, and negotiate their contract including profit sharing in exchange for something else. After the West has their agreement....then transtion agreements need to be negotiated.

Otherwise, keep them separate and West PICKET the hell out of the company for as long as it takes, media, flyers, the works!

Doug won't make any improvements for the West and surely not the East f/as who are the majority. According to his "controler" JG, he will not improve West or East, but rather make them swap provisions to net a cost neutrality. After all, the profit sharing was one example he tested and it worked. :down:

Because I can see this covert manipulation of the two groups so clearly, undoubtely, has pissed me off. And worse than anything, East doesn't have a clue that they've been manipulated by management with a bunch of ultimatims...

 

[delldude]

about that future?

 

[PITbull]

Simply put, it is NOT the same pie. If USAirways were to merge with another airline, this one with 50,000 employees, the profit would presumably increase as well. In the current merger, the combined carrier made a greater profit than either of the two former carriers did seperately. Had US East been a stand alone operation, the percentage of profit sharing would have come from a smaller profit. Therefore, the total amount going to the East f/a's would have been less than it is currently.

What the East MEC voted for, according to you, was to take the best practice of the current contracts (profit sharing vs. no profit sharing)and apply it to the entire workgroup during the transition period.

As to the rest of your post, I am quite aware of the sacrifices everybody in the East has made. What form the new contract takes is anybody's guess, but it's going to be difficult to recognize those sacrifices with monetary compensation without completely dividing the workforce between West and East.

Go spin that BS somewhere else.

The profit made from the East was much larger than the west, and would have been better for the East f/as to maintain their own provision and that profit portion rather than include the West profit and include 3,000 (60%) more f/as to their pie.

The profit sharing plan is in direct correlation with Concession #3 from the East. That is how the pie is driven. The West can have their $68 million and Dougie needs to provide his people with a provit sharing plan equitable to the West; NOT taking it from the East.

Until such time, there is actually merged contracts and the operation is merged...the company needs to be respectful and honor the contract provsions as is, and who that provision applies to, and whose contract that provision is in.
There is NO language for the West. The West needs to negotiate it with their Ceo, and the CEO needs to honor his employees for their performance. The East profit sharing is tied to the concessions given and the East are the only group that gave concessions.