2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

Hmmmmmm....a 10 year old quote from U-Turn.  That really must trump court rulings, judicial dicta, admonishments from VP's of the company & rulings from esteemed arbitrators.  I'm sure it'll be just fine.

Kind of like all those worthless court rulings...........hang in there Dorothy........we understand you plan on suing the APA over a NICless list.......you go for it.



The MIGHTY U-Turn Says: WE TOLD YOU SO!...........ouch!


Wye River

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Did you notice the silence of west posters or the outbursts of some on other venues that are downright irritable? Like surprise never posted here before but I am so mad I can not hold back? Realistically the WEST Comm is AOL and AOL knows! Like we know their rush to claim victory would be quicker than some guy turning you in for running an apu's on the ground!

 

[luvthe9]

Did you notice the silence of west posters or the outbursts of some on other venues that are downright irritable? Like surprise never posted here before but I am so mad I can not hold back? Realistically the WEST Comm is AOL and AOL knows! Like we know their rush to claim victory would be quicker than some guy turning you in for running an apu's on the ground!

They know they screwed up big time, no NIC for them. AOL destroyed the west pilots careers...........NIC or nothing........joke of the decade!

 

[EastUS1]

........NIC or nothing........joke of the decade!

 
Oh, I dunno per joke of the decade. One has to give proper consideration to the whole self-styled "Army" of supposed "Spartans" thing as well, and that just for starters.
 
P.S. While considering awards for complete jokes; let us also pause to reflect on all the "AWA"some sorts who so loved to denigrate FLT1549's crew and loudly boasted about how they would have (of course) magically managed things so much "better"...after all; we all know that going "TOGA" would've somehow restored essentially destroyed engines to full power....Right?

 

[Phoenix]

"Nic or Nothing!"

Fingers stuffed in ears, eyes tightly closed..

"Nic or Nothing, Nic or Nothing, Nic or Nothing, Nic or Nothing, I can't hear you" etc, etc..

 

[EastUS1]

For the love of Pete. Enough of the legal arguments.

The West Committee already admitted there was no legal right to the Nic, and that they were asking for it out of fairness.

It's over, the Arbs will either gift it to the West....or not.

Guess Cactusboy disagrees with his own committee, which includes one of his elected reps.

He is so giddy to be out of the cornfield he ignored the current lay of the land. Actually he has not had a clue for years.

 
"He is so giddy to be out of the cornfield he ignored the current lay of the land. Actually he has not had a clue for years." At least years...I rather suspect since birth.

 

[EastUS1]

 
..... I'm sure it'll be just fine.

 
Sigh!...You truly pathetic little twit. It seems all of us present woke up this morning with both opposable thumbs and a pulse, thus all is "just fine". That's as  much "sure" as any of us can ever be. You really should at least consider the concept of someday growing up and ever even pretending towards becoming a functional adult at any level.

 

[Bean]

Ah yes. I too awoke to not just two, but four thumbs. Checked again, and yes I have my hands and feet still attached.

Like a monkey named snowflake, I am pretty confident the wrongs of the last decade will be quickly be righted in one fell swoop in literally less than 1 month!

Just like that, the argument made by my lovable coworkers will be wiped out.

They may claim victory trying to justify once again their position.

Their position that they were right all along.

Why? Because the AA pilots didn't do to them what they feared the most... doing exactly what they did to the Wesr.

So consumed with the micro, unable to see the macro.

Good on you east, and your peers.

Looks like you won, but again, you don't seems to realize you lost.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Ah yes. I too awoke to not just two, but four thumbs. Checked again, and yes I have my hands and feet still attached.
Like a monkey named snowflake, I am pretty confident the wrongs of the last decade will be quickly be righted in one fell swoop in literally less than 1 month!
Just like that, the argument made by my lovable coworkers will be wiped out.
They may claim victory trying to justify once again their position.
Their position that they were right all along.
Why? Because the AA pilots didn't do to them what they feared the most... doing exactly what they did to the Wesr.
So consumed with the micro, unable to see the macro.
Good on you east, and your peers.
Looks like you won, but again, you don't seems to realize you lost.

. What did we do? "We Let You Have Your OWN Seniority"! We were very comfortable with ours, we took nothing from you, unlessssss you wanted to take from us?????

 

[luvthe9]

Ah yes. I too awoke to not just two, but four thumbs. Checked again, and yes I have my hands and feet still attached.
Like a monkey named snowflake, I am pretty confident the wrongs of the last decade will be quickly be righted in one fell swoop in literally less than 1 month!
Just like that, the argument made by my lovable coworkers will be wiped out.
They may claim victory trying to justify once again their position.
Their position that they were right all along.
Why? Because the AA pilots didn't do to them what they feared the most... doing exactly what they did to the Wesr.
So consumed with the micro, unable to see the macro.
Good on you east, and your peers.
Looks like you won, but again, you don't seems to realize you lost.

Darn, that's some good spin .......... I bet regardless of the outcome you kids will cry victory.......I don't think you realized what you had lost.

 

[Claxon]

Doug Parker Letter 08/16/2007
Dear US Airways Pilot:
I should clarify that a joint contract does not necessarily mean immediate seniority integration. I have spoken with enough of our East pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2058
You will recall the testimony of plaintiff Mark Burman. He's the man who verified the complaint in this action for the plaintiffs who agreed that the union election between ALPA and USAPA was basically a referendum vote rejecting the Nicolau Award.
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2009
You had plaintiff witness Ken Stravers, former chairman of the West Merger Committee, agree that the term log-jam was appropriate. Plaintiff Mark Burman recognized that there was an impasse. Plaintiffs' witness Russell Payne, former member of the ALPA -- the West ALPA MEC merger committee, agreed that the Wye River meetings were to resolve the impasse that existed and that they didn't succeed. Named plaintiff Steve Wargocki confirmed he had described the impasse that had arisen between the two sides as a quagmire.

 

[Claxon]

Posts: 61
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: Jetz and props
Ratings: ATP, MEI, FE B-727, B-737 type
Curr Position: Flying for the aquiring airline
Total Time: 11,000

Sully, welcome to Phoenix
Open letter to Doug Parker.

September 28, 2009
Mr. Douglas Parker
CEO & Chairman of the Board
US Airways, Inc.
111 W. Rio Salado Parkway
Tempe, Arizona 85281

VIA EMAIL

Dear Doug:

I'm writing to express my complete and utter disappointment with
today's announcement that Captain Sullenberger will be appointed to a
management position within the company. In fact, as a result of Capt.
Sullenberger's decision to use his new found fame as a weapon against
1800 former America West pilots in a recent federal court case over
pilot seniority, I find the company's announcement particularly
insulting. Not only does this decision now forever discredit the
company's purported "neutrality" in the pilot seniority issue, but it
also calls in to question the credibility of the entire safety
management team. As I hope you'll agree, it is in everybody's best
interests to keep flight safety an issue that is far removed from
politics.

I can respect that Capt. Sullenberger has his own personal opinions
regarding the seniority situation, however, I believe that his
decision to testify in court raises reasonable question as to his
ability to adequately perform his new duties without bias. Capt.
Sullenberger did not provide any relevant testimony in the case, and
was only called to testify by USAPA in the hopes that his celebrity
status would unfairly influence a jury. Instead of limiting the use
his celebrity status in support of productive goals such as promoting
aviation safety and the image of US Airways, he blatantly abused that
status by unnecessarily inserting himself on the losing side of an
issue that he played no prior role in. I cannot be reasonably assured
that he would not similarly misuse his position in management.

While I'm certain that this letter will fall on deaf ears, I can
assure you that this letter by no means an end to this issue, and that
you will be in need of much more than a well polished statement at a
crew news session to address it.

Sincerely,
/s/
Mitch Vasin
PHX 320 FO

Mitch Vasin, former Eagle pilot, America west pilot, Arizona Summit Law School graduate commenting on the heroic actions of Chesley Sullenberger
United States Air Force Academy 1973

 

[53Cactusboy]

Wow.  That sure is a lot of blather, jealous posting about Capt. Aux & Mitch, and chest thumping kids.  You seem a little worried.
 
I'm sure that you'll be fine.  While the arbitration panel participants work in the same industry (if not the same offices) of respected arbitrator George Nicolau, I'm sure they know nothing of the volumes of USAPA tactics that have occurred over the past 7-8 years.  The RICO charges.  The fake Address-gate nonsense, and finally the long-overdue ruling of the Ninth that USAPA is in fact in breech of DFR.
 
I haven't the slightest idea which way the seniority winds will blow.  All I know is that your group has not nor will ever keep your word in ANY legal exchange.  Your word is not your bond.  Pretty simple stuff.

 

[53Cactusboy]

[SIZE=12pt]In the matter of: Preliminary Arbitration Board APA/USAPA/AA (December 17, 2014)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All three lists. I guess the gravamen of the questions is are you then putting yourself in the place of Nicolau, are you the new Nicolau because you are proposing a list which may not reflect Nicolau's list? ….. And American pilots. And, therefore, you're making a proposal, which may be different than what Nicolau had in mind and issued back in '07.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]MR. FREUND (in closing): As the Chairman put it so nicely in his questioning of (NAME REDACTED), what the US -- what the East Committee, the US Airways Committee, the USAPA Committee, call it what you want, what it wants to do is to put itself in the place of George Nicolau and redo what George did in 2007.[/SIZE]

 

[53Cactusboy]

[SIZE=12pt]From “A Conversation with an Attorney” - between (NAME REDACTED) &  Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan, a labor law firm (Chris Katzenbach point):  “Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud.” [/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]This in response to (NAME REDACTED) saying the following:  “I next specifically asked him about the formation of a new bargaining agent as an avenue of advance to get around this award…”[/SIZE]