2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Phoenix]

Looks like negotiations are on going.

 

[Phoenix]

Now this is funny.  The BPR is trying to sabotage the settlement by resigning.  Won't work.
 

Reconvened BPR Special Telephonic Meeting Recap
 
At 11 a.m. ET, the recessed BPR meeting was called to order by President Bradford to discuss progress in the settlement negotiations. The meeting, however, could not convene due to lack of a quorum. Jay Milkey for Washington, D.C., was the only BPR member present.
Additionally, over the previous two days, the USAPA Secretary Treasurer John Owens has received several resignations from BPR members which makes attaining a quorum difficult if not impossible.
The meeting was adjourned at 11:25 a.m.

You still doubt the power of a majority that understands details..

 

[cactusboy53]

Looks like negotiations are on going.

I'm so pleased that you think this is funny. Negotiations were complete & agreed to in principle (let me know if you need help with that word). As USAPA's update says, there appears to be a mass exodus.

Hmmmmmm......walking away from an agreement in the hope of ducking responsibility / commitments. ....that seems so very familiar.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm so pleased that you think this is funny. Negotiations were complete & agreed to in principle (let me know if you need help with that word). As USAPA's update says, there appears to be a mass exodus.
Hmmmmmm......walking away from an agreement in the hope of ducking responsibility / commitments. ....that seems so very familiar.

"In principle"..? According to who?

Even if we assume there was an agreement in principle among some authorized subset of pilots or lawyers, obviously the agreement was contingent on others who actually posses the real authority..

Contingency.. Details... Majority.. Reality.. It's all so complicated for you fortune tellers. You miss the future over, and over, and over. Keep your day job.

 

[nic4us]

"In principle"..? According to who?

Even if we assume there was an agreement in principle among some authorized subset of pilots or lawyers, obviously the agreement was contingent on others who actually posses the real authority..

Contingency.. Details... Majority.. Reality.. It's all so complicated for you fortune tellers. You miss the future over, and over, and over. Keep your day job.

 
For the past 8 years I have "kept my day job" by keeping the scab union from taking it from me.
 
So, if  uscaba does not want to settle, I think that will be fine with me.
 
Up next court orders from Conrad and Silver...and yes they are both "authorized" to seize accounts.
 
PS.. the entire BPR can resign, makes no difference, we know where they "keep their day job"!

 

[A320 Driver]

No one was ever taking your day job or "taking it from me" as you put it. I have never seen so much self victimization in my life! You'll ride on any bandwagon that comes by. But you and yours are the ONLY ones that believe all the hype you're claiming. The bottom line is, had the company offered us a reasonable contract, you would have had your NIC. But they played this seniority battle to the tune of a 1 billion dollar savings over 7 years. Their hands are not clean, but somehow, amazingly, they get away with it.
 
You'll believe anything that suits your purpose...

 

[EastUS1]

No. We're just waiting for all the pieces of the puzzle to fall into place..........

 
Good luck with that concept ever actually happening for "you'se."
 
cactusboy53: "I'm so pleased that you think this is funny." After over eight years filled with erudite explosions of "This is Sparta!" and the like, inevitably coupled with a premature crescendo from your supporting kazoo section, well, I ask honestly how any observer could be derided for laughing?
 
From Death of a Salesman. Act 2:
 
WILLY: "Sure, sure. I am building something with this firm, Ben, and if a man is building something he must be on the right track, musn’t he?"

BEN: "What are you building? Lay your hand on it. Where is it?"

 

[nic4us]

No one was ever taking your day job or "taking it from me" as you put it. I have never seen so much self victimization in my life! You'll ride on any bandwagon that comes by. But you and yours are the ONLY ones that believe all the hype you're claiming. The bottom line is, had the company offered us a reasonable contract, you would have had your NIC. But they played this seniority battle to the tune of a 1 billion dollar savings over 7 years. Their hands are not clean, but somehow, amazingly, they get away with it.
 
You'll believe anything that suits your purpose...

 
Bullshirt..!!
 
First, there are 50,000 ALPA members who know that the east intentionally stripped the West of union representation in order to renege on the Nic, and take from the West our seniority positions at LCC.
 
Second, the entire premise of the scab union was they could steal the West's seniority positions and award them to east pilots.  Pretty much sums up the campaign strategy that got the scab union elected.  Promise 2500 pilots they can improve their positions by subjugating the West pilot group and advancing their positions at the West's expense.
 
Third, the reason the company "got away with it" is because the east gave it to them.  How many times in the 10 years that we were LCC was the east told they are not getting DOH?  What did the TA say in these regards?  I will tell you....Dozens of times the east was told, starting with Parker and Lakefield's statement of labor principles, followed by Nicolau, followed by judges Wake, Bybee, Tashima, Graber, Silver.  Yet, unbelievably, uscaba persisted, thinking they were gonna force everyone else to comply with their scab strategies. 
 
Further, the TA specifically laid the ground rules, and the east wanted not only to renege on the Nic but also the TA. Well too effin bad scab union, the company was never gonna collude with you and violate the TA.  They were all too happy to let you work for below union wages while maintaining their compliance with the TA.
 
Finally, it was the absolute resolve of the West to end the scab union experiment, and we prevailed!  Now, uscaba can either pay up, or be forced to pay up...makes no difference to me!

 

[EastUS1]

.First, there are 50,000 ALPA members .....

 
So what? What good were those 50,000 ALPA members while ALPA sat by and watched managements throughout the industry gut contracts and steal pensions? In any case; it's just your usually childish perspective that allows you to magically "know" what 50,000 people naturally think, and of course fully agree with you. Even were that so; ALPA's vaunted opinion on anything should somehow count at all?....Why?
 
"Finally, it was the absolute resolve of the West..." That's yet another one "you'se" can file away under: Who Cares? The incredible sense of "righteous" self-importance and entitlement, so long now exhibited in "sparta" since the nic, falls precious little (if any) short of being clinically delusional.
 
The only good thing that could be said for all of the nic nonsense is that the whole mess seems to be at least nearing it's end...finally.

 

[EastUS1]

Second, the entire premise of the scab union was they could steal the West's seniority positions and award them to east pilots. 

 
"You'se" were offered a compromise that fully protected PHX from east intrusion, with the stipulation that bidding out from PHX would be done based on date of hire. Explain exactly how that represented any attempt to "steal the West's seniority positions"...? Just curious here; is it even at all actually possible that you can honestly believe your own BS?

 

[cactusboy53]

 
So what? What good were those 50,000 ALPA members while ALPA sat by and watched managements throughout the industry gut contracts and steal pensions?.....
 
The only good thing that could be said for all of the nic nonsense is that the whole mess seems to be at least nearing it's end...finally.

 
Were you dropped on your head as a child?  ALPA, USAPA and now  APA have spent countless funds determining if your pension was "stolen".  While a tragedy, your pension was not taken away by ALPA national, engineered by ALPA national, or fostered by ALPA national.
 
If your statement is true, then DAL and UAL/CAL should have been under a LOA93-like contract.  Considering the MUCH better place that they are in, I would look to blame your own local ALPA representation.  Firing up a new "union" to take what does NOT belong to you was a FOOLS ERRAND (supported by fools).
 
Sorry Michael, but the reasons that AAA went the way of bankruptcy is squarely on AAA management's shoulders.  Further, when the path was deemed a loss naturally they sought to keep the ship afloat off the backs of labor.  It's just that simple.
 
I will agree with you, the "end" is near as determined by the BOA.  They will read closing arguments and render a FEDERALLY FINAL & BINDING seniority list.

 

[cactusboy53]

 
"You'se" were offered a compromise that fully protected PHX from east intrusion, with the stipulation that bidding out from PHX would be done based on date of hire. Explain exactly how that represented any attempt to "steal the West's seniority positions"...? Just curious here; is it even at all actually possible that you can honestly believe your own BS?

 
Sorry Michael.  You CLEARY.....sorry clearly don't understand that the Nicolau list is the PRODUCT of a MUTUALLY AGREED UPON PROCESS.  As such, you have NO RIGHT to ALTER that product in any way, shape or form.  In other words.....doing so was deemed to be a breech of USAPA's DUTY OF FAIR REPRESENTATION. 
 
You know, like the 9th RULED.

 

[Phoenix]

 
Sorry Michael.  You CLEARY.....sorry clearly don't understand that the Nicolau list is the PRODUCT of a MUTUALLY AGREED UPON PROCESS.  As such, you have NO RIGHT to ALTER that product in any way, shape or form.  In other words.....doing so was deemed to be a breech of USAPA's DUTY OF FAIR REPRESENTATION. 
 
You know, like the 9th RULED.

 
 
 
If a tree falls in the forest and there is no quorum present, does the treasury release any money?  
 
Seeing the courts have yet to find any damages will the lawyers be able to change the court's mind before the money runs out?  

 

[Phoenix]

 
Were you dropped on your head as a child?  ALPA, USAPA and now  APA have spent countless funds determining if your pension was "stolen".  While a tragedy, your pension was not taken away by ALPA national, engineered by ALPA national, or fostered by ALPA national.
 
If your statement is true, then DAL and UAL/CAL should have been under a LOA93-like contract.  Considering the MUCH better place that they are in, I would look to blame your own local ALPA representation.  Firing up a new "union" to take what does NOT belong to you was a FOOLS ERRAND (supported by fools).
 
Sorry Michael, but the reasons that AAA went the way of bankruptcy is squarely on AAA management's shoulders.  Further, when the path was deemed a loss naturally they sought to keep the ship afloat off the backs of labor.  It's just that simple.
 
I will agree with you, the "end" is near as determined by the BOA.  They will read closing arguments and render a FEDERALLY FINAL & BINDING seniority list.

 
 
Oh the drama.  The BOA will publish a list that is immediately and contractually included in the ratified JCBA, a binding contract (just like the 2005 TA was until all parties  to the JCBA repudiated and nullified it with all the other prior agreements--except for the TWA arbitration that was specifically preserved).  
 
Why was the TWA arbitration preserved in the JCBA, but the Mighty Spartan Warrior Beast apparition/arbitration was not?  
 
Contracts are binding only to the extent that they stipulate,  because no one likes cheaters who try to get more than what was agreed to.

 

[cactusboy53]

Oh Scotty.....more pretzle logic. Good for you.