2015 Pilot Discussion.

[EastUS1]

You are the wests biggest idiot, ...

 
That's hardly at all fair to his competition.

 

[traderjake]

For all the foregoing reasons, the Board concludes that APA’s designation of a West Pilots Merger Committee is consistent with the Protocol and MOU; is consistent with the MacKaskill-Bond requirement that the SLI process be “fair and equitable;” is a proper and reasonable exercise of its discretion; and is fully consistent with APA’s duty of fair representation to all Company pilots. Indeed, in this particular case, the Board concludes that “fairness and equity” demand the appointment of a West Pilot Merger Committee to participate in the SLI process.
The Board notes that pursuant to Paragraph 8(of the Protocol Agreement, “[T]he Preliminary Arbitration Board shall issue an order granting or denying any such requests that APA designate the requested Committee…The order shall be final and binding on APA and USAPA, American and US Airways…and all of the pilots of American and US Airways.”

 

 

[CactusPilot1]

You are the wests biggest idiot, you screwed yourselves we just sat back and watched and laughed, REMEMBER YOU WERE OFFERED THE NIC, AND TURNED IT DOWN. Go run along now.

Seriously?

First of all, it was not yours to offer. Second, how come the transcripts from the mini-arbitration say the following:

"After the Nicolau Award was issued, a group of East Pilots established a new union, USAPA, which was set up to block the introduction of the Nicolau Award and to promote the use of date of hire for integrated seniority list purposes."

C'mon man, who are you trying to fool?
http://www..com/watch?v=2zr91-n4nvY&sns=em

 

[A320 Driver]

You don't remember Wye River???
 
USAPA came along after the West thwarted every effort ALPA National made to try to negotiate a compromise. Prater termed the NIC "problematic" and said in the PHL crew room that he made that determination the first time he saw it. It's been referenced in later arbitrations as something to be avoided with regard to it's method or application.
 
All that is water over the dam. So put on your case for the NIC, we will put on ours for a 3 way similar to United/Continental and we will see where the arbitration lands us.
 
Oh, one more thing. The West victory in the preliminary arbitration is going to work against you with the 9th. They threw your suit out on ripeness the first time. How do you suppose they will view the fact that USAPA and the East pilots have absolutely nothing to do with West representation in the upcoming SLI. Better read up on the first visit to the 9th. It's a pretty good forecast of what is about to happen the second time.

 

[luvthe9]

Seriously?
First of all, it was not yours to offer.

"Seriously" Your just upset you did not accept when you had the chance and have paid dearly for that mistake, we understand. Ya know when it's all said it makes no difference whether you have a seat or not, you'll wind up in the same place except with a lot less money in your pocket. Marty loves you guys.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Our resident Luddite still can't extricate himself from the last century.

Seniority, like a fine wine, should improve with age (LOS).

 

[Zone5]

Congratulations to the West on their arbitration "win"!

Going forward, they will only have themselves to take credit for the eventual outcome of the upcoming SLI. Three lists, a snapshot from December 2013, and a DOH list just like USAPA and APA will be bringing, will result in a DFR proof list, good!

I think the possibility of a negotiated settlement is now a more likely scenario. All three players have a vested interest in protecting what they bring to the table, as well they should.

USAPA and APA both have significant former furloughed pilots to represent and LOS will be a major consideration, same thing goes for the West to a lesser degree (at least in terms of numbers). Thanks to the United/Continental SLI, this will not be a "new" concept, the only real question to be answered in this regard will be the specific weighting of its impact on the combined list.

Of course player specific equipment category, bid position, attrition, aircraft on order and the ever popular "career expectations" will need to be factored into the process. Hopefully, these issues can be addressed in some fair and equitable manner, acceptable to a majority of the pilots of the New American Airlines that will result in the combination of all three pilot groups, so as to piss off everybody equally.

If the West shows up with a "NIC or nothing" posture, they will be doing a great disservice to their constituency. But then (finally) that will be of their own making.


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

If the West shows up with a "NIC or nothing" posture, they will be doing a great disservice to their constituency. But then (finally) that will be of their own making.

 
I've no doubt that's exactly what they will do. Consider alone the fact they were offered the nic at Wye River with a fence that would've expired by now and contemptuously refused to even consider it. Their actions to date hardly place them among the aviation world's intellectual elite. One must reasonably expect a presented theme more along the lines of Res Judicata's sublime eloquence:  "Uh-Huh. FK you and Fk your AA "captain buddy" too."...and well, properly crediting their flair for imaginatively artistic expression as previously demonstrated by their sage Representative Cactusboy53, perhaps accompanied by a few rousing rounds of (and I quote) "This is Sparta!"

 

[CactusPilot1]

You don't remember Wye River???
 
USAPA came along after the West thwarted every effort ALPA National made to try to negotiate a compromise. Prater termed the NIC "problematic" and said in the PHL crew room that he made that determination the first time he saw it. It's been referenced in later arbitrations as something to be avoided with regard to it's method or application.
 
All that is water over the dam. So put on your case for the NIC, we will put on ours for a 3 way similar to United/Continental and we will see where the arbitration lands us.
 
Oh, one more thing. The West victory in the preliminary arbitration is going to work against you with the 9th. They threw your suit out on ripeness the first time. How do you suppose they will view the fact that USAPA and the East pilots have absolutely nothing to do with West representation in the upcoming SLI. Better read up on the first visit to the 9th. It's a pretty good forecast of what is about to happen the second time.

I know about Wye River, yet attended every day of both trials. I read all the transcripts and have asked our lawyers questions concerning the legal strategy. On one hand you had Wye River and on the other hand there was Prater. Your threatened both ALPA and the West pilots with USAPA if you did not get a compromise on the compromise. It was a threat. There is a reason governments should never give in to demands under threat. It only encourages more of the same. I could care less about the jellyfish, Prater. I'm proud of the West for standing on principle.

Leonidas is not concerned about the 9th. We appealed. Now, we have yet another final and binding arbitration. You have the uphill battle and out legal team is confident in the outcome of both the 9th and the case in NC which will tie up USAPA's funds.

Good luck with your forecast.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Congratulations to the West on their arbitration "win"!
Going forward, they will only have themselves to take credit for the eventual outcome of the upcoming SLI. Three lists, a snapshot from December 2013, and a DOH list just like USAPA and APA will be bringing, will result in a DFR proof list, good!
I think the possibility of a negotiated settlement is now a more likely scenario. All three players have a vested interest in protecting what they bring to the table, as well they should.
USAPA and APA both have significant former furloughed pilots to represent and LOS will be a major consideration, same thing goes for the West to a lesser degree (at least in terms of numbers). Thanks to the United/Continental SLI, this will not be a "new" concept, the only real question to be answered in this regard will be the specific weighting of its impact on the combined list.
Of course player specific equipment category, bid position, attrition, aircraft on order and the ever popular "career expectations" will need to be factored into the process. Hopefully, these issues can be addressed in some fair and equitable manner, acceptable to a majority of the pilots of the New American Airlines that will result in the combination of all three pilot groups, so as to piss off everybody equally.
If the West shows up with a "NIC or nothing" posture, they will be doing a great disservice to their constituency. But then (finally) that will be of their own making.
seajay

C'mon man....Of course Leonidas is going to show up with the Nic. It was an arbitrator's decision which is going on front of other arbitrators.

 

[EastUS1]

C'mon man....Of course Leonidas is going to show up with the Nic. It was an arbitrator's decision which is going on front of other arbitrators.

 
What? Merely the Nic, and not as recently promised here "the nic on steroids"? Whew! Now that's a great relief indeed.

 

[EastUS1]

I know about Wye River, ........I'm proud of the West for standing on principle.

 
I'm sure that principled pride fully eased the blows felt from every single lost bid since and has provided all of "you'se" complete peace of mind. Have fun arguing again for the nic "you'se", in some frenzied, greed-soaked "spartan" delirium saw fit to so disdainfully turn down years ago, especially from the currently advantageous position provided by all the vast resources in PHX, and now two opposing groups' interests running directly contrary to yours, of course.
 
P.S. Don't forget to proudly shout your previous "battle" cry of "NO Fences!" to the folks at American. I'm sure they'll get a good laugh.

 

[Zone5]

C'mon man....Of course Leonidas is going to show up with the Nic. It was an arbitrator's decision which is going on front of other arbitrators.

 
Leonidas?!  I'm sorry, I thought the arbitrators ordered that the APA was supposed to appoint a duly designated West merger committee, to not do so would seem to place "Leonidas" in a potential DFR liability position, if they were even accepted by the APA as representing the West pilots SLI interests. What do you think would happen to Leonidas, if even ONE West pilot ends up pissed off at the result of the inevitable "Nic or nothing" position of Leonidas?
 
Furthermore, the West merger committee, should be paid for by the APA and the company, not "donations" out of the pockets of some of the West pilots pockets, yes?
 
 
seajay 

 

[EastUS1]

 
Leonidas?!  I'm sorry, I thought the arbitrators ordered that the APA was supposed to appoint a duly designated West merger committee, to not do so would seem to place "Leonidas" in a potential DFR liability position, if they were even accepted by the APA as representing the West pilots SLI interests. What do you think would happen to Leonidas, if even ONE West pilot ends up pissed off at the result of the inevitable "Nic or nothing" position of Leonidas?
 
Furthermore, the West merger committee, should be paid for by the APA and the company, not "donations" out of the pockets of some of the West pilots pockets, yes?
 
 
seajay 

 
 Yep. Step one is even just selecting who will serve to represent the west, by whom and under what terms and conditions. Perhaps we all just missed the arbitration order clearly determining AOL to be the west's representative body going forward? You're reasonably positing the shifting sands of actual reality. I've little hope such will loudly resonate within their "army" or "Sparta" it's self as yet.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Leonidas?!  I'm sorry, I thought the arbitrators ordered that the APA was supposed to appoint a duly designated West merger committee, to not do so would seem to place "Leonidas" in a potential DFR liability position, if they were even accepted by the APA as representing the West pilots SLI interests. What do you think would happen to Leonidas, if even ONE West pilot ends up pissed off at the result of the inevitable "Nic or nothing" position of Leonidas?
 
Furthermore, the West merger committee, should be paid for by the APA and the company, not "donations" out of the pockets of some of the West pilots pockets, yes?
 
 
seajay

USAPA LLC?

I can make the same argument.

What purpose does USAPA LLC play? Why does this LLC think they can pick the pockets of West pilots when it is the APA is representing the East pilots? When the APA took over, USAPA can no longer participate in seniority negotiations.