2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[NYer]

Thanks to IAM 141 Rich Delaney, Ira Levy and Sito Pantoja.

Josh

 
At least they're communicating with their Members....The TWU hasn't said a peep about the 4% that was announced on December 23rd....seems like complete radio silence.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Then again you thought the 3 little issues. which we have not heard about since, was going to be resolved in a quick fashion...I'd guess we won't even hear an update until the end of January.

I would like to hopefully hear something sooner than that if there is something that can be shared?
 
You needed to care about the "nAAtives" before we got to this point.

I did and do but apparently you don't feel those 3 issues are of any concern and could have been brushed aside through the written process of the association rather than being discussed and maybe a compromise "agreed" to? Which for all we know may have occurred?
 
Rumors are that UAL is about to close a significant amount of stations...so all this waiting is just making things more and more difficult. But hey, let's be patient. =/

I have no issue with a "small" measure of patience while apparently it seems as if when it comes to the TWU lately you have none? You used to have plenty of patience when it came to our union and these days it seems like they can't be afforded any quarter in that area?

And yes I read the same comment on that rumor as you. Until it happens though that's all it still is, rumor.

 

[737823]

At least they're communicating with their Members....The TWU hasn't said a peep about the 4% that was announced on December 23rd....seems like complete radio silence.

You sure 700 didn't get a hold of your credentials?

They aren't communicating its a mess at United right now stations are closing (and more to come) hubs are overstuffed people are going down to part time. Add insult to injury thanks to the IAM CBA they are doing temporary hiring and they are getting fulltime lines scheduled in some locations. Even Kev agrees the IAM screwed up big time at UA.

Josh

 

[NYer]

 

 
Then again you thought the 3 little issues. which we have not heard about since, was going to be resolved in a quick fashion...I'd guess we won't even hear an update until the end of January.

I would like to hopefully hear something sooner than that if there is something that can be shared?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You needed to care about the "nAAtives" before we got to this point.

I did and do but apparently you don't feel those 3 issues are of any concern and could have been brushed aside through the written process of the association rather than being discussed and maybe a compromise "agreed" to? Which for all we know may have occurred? --They can talk about those issues as long as they want. They did NOT have to stop the process of negotiations prep in order to do so or in order to try and force a resolution to something that is a signed agreement. Not really a good way to start a relationship in which COMPROMISE will be a key component in a successful negotiations.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rumors are that UAL is about to close a significant amount of stations...so all this waiting is just making things more and more difficult. But hey, let's be patient. =/

I have no issue with a "small" measure of patience while apparently it seems as if when it comes to the TWU lately you have none? You used to have plenty of patience when it came to our union and these days it seems like they can't be afforded any quarter in that area?  --They've had since September of 2013 to try and get an resolution to their issue. It is not January 5th and we have heard absolutely nothing that has to do with those 3 items or anything else concerning the resolution of those items or even if they're meeting, let alone any plans for negotiations. Funny thing is that when they were out there picking a fight, we heard about that pretty loudly.
 
How much patience are we supposed to have when everyday nothing happens is another day that nothing happens.

And yes I read the same comment on that rumor as you. Until it happens though that's all it still is, rumor. --So I guess we shouldn't do anything until all the shoes fall.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 


 
Then again you thought the 3 little issues. which we have not heard about since, was going to be resolved in a quick fashion...I'd guess we won't even hear an update until the end of January.

I would like to hopefully hear something sooner than that if there is something that can be shared?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You needed to care about the "nAAtives" before we got to this point.

I did and do but apparently you don't feel those 3 issues are of any concern and could have been brushed aside through the written process of the association rather than being discussed and maybe a compromise "agreed" to? Which for all we know may have occurred? --They can talk about those issues as long as they want. They did NOT have to stop the process of negotiations prep in order to do so or in order to try and force a resolution to something that is a signed agreement. Not really a good way to start a relationship in which COMPROMISE will be a key component in a successful negotiations.

For the most part I agree completely with what you said. That would be the adult way to deal with things. But you do seem to want to point the finger solely at one side again these days? It takes two to tango.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rumors are that UAL is about to close a significant amount of stations...so all this waiting is just making things more and more difficult. But hey, let's be patient. =/

I have no issue with a "small" measure of patience while apparently it seems as if when it comes to the TWU lately you have none? You used to have plenty of patience when it came to our union and these days it seems like they can't be afforded any quarter in that area?  --They've had since September of 2013 to try and get an resolution to their issue. It is not January 5th and we have heard absolutely nothing that has to do with those 3 items or anything else concerning the resolution of those items or even if they're meeting, let alone any plans for negotiations. Funny thing is that when they were out there picking a fight, we heard about that pretty loudly.

Seems BOTH parties have been mum if there has been any conversations or resolution? But again you are right that the TWU has to start getting the ball rolling as I feel the IAM side are currently ahead in the area of preparing and announcing who their negotiators are.
 
 
How much patience are we supposed to have when everyday nothing happens is another day that nothing happens.

Prefunding Match, Equity reserve/EBO lawsuit, 2003 concessions. Maybe just a tiny tiny drop longer on the patience?

And yes I read the same comment on that rumor as you. Until it happens though that's all it still is, rumor. --So I guess we shouldn't do anything until all the shoes fall.

No No No. You should do exactly what you are doing and I also think pretty soon people are going to be joining you if they don't start hearing something soon. You're not alone on a Island in that regard.

 

 

 

[WeAAsles]

I think there are two catalysts that will essentially force the TWU to take action to move progress forward "IF" something hasn't already been announced beforehand. One of course will be when the NMB makes a ruling on the SCS filing by the Association. And #2 and even bigger in regards to Fleet would be if the CWA reaches a TA with the company fairly quickly?

I know at least on the AA side any gains we received over my time at AA the company usually matched those gains pretty evenly to the agents as well. I think if the CWA secures substantial gains it's going to be a rallying cry from the Fleet membership that they demand action by the Union to not hold our own progress on ice, no matter what the issue or issues may be. 

I found attachment D of the current US CWA agreement rather interesting BTW.

http://files.cwa-union.org/CwaNet/CWAContractAllAgreements.pdf

 

[NYer]

 

 


 


 
Then again you thought the 3 little issues. which we have not heard about since, was going to be resolved in a quick fashion...I'd guess we won't even hear an update until the end of January.

I would like to hopefully hear something sooner than that if there is something that can be shared?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You needed to care about the "nAAtives" before we got to this point.

I did and do but apparently you don't feel those 3 issues are of any concern and could have been brushed aside through the written process of the association rather than being discussed and maybe a compromise "agreed" to? Which for all we know may have occurred? --They can talk about those issues as long as they want. They did NOT have to stop the process of negotiations prep in order to do so or in order to try and force a resolution to something that is a signed agreement. Not really a good way to start a relationship in which COMPROMISE will be a key component in a successful negotiations.

For the most part I agree completely with what you said. That would be the adult way to deal with things. But you do seem to want to point the finger solely at one side again these days? It takes two to tango.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rumors are that UAL is about to close a significant amount of stations...so all this waiting is just making things more and more difficult. But hey, let's be patient. =/

I have no issue with a "small" measure of patience while apparently it seems as if when it comes to the TWU lately you have none? You used to have plenty of patience when it came to our union and these days it seems like they can't be afforded any quarter in that area?  --They've had since September of 2013 to try and get an resolution to their issue. It is not January 5th and we have heard absolutely nothing that has to do with those 3 items or anything else concerning the resolution of those items or even if they're meeting, let alone any plans for negotiations. Funny thing is that when they were out there picking a fight, we heard about that pretty loudly.

Seems BOTH parties have been mum if there has been any conversations or resolution? But again you are right that the TWU has to start getting the ball rolling as I feel the IAM side are currently ahead in the area of preparing and announcing who their negotiators are.
 
 
How much patience are we supposed to have when everyday nothing happens is another day that nothing happens.

Prefunding Match, Equity reserve/EBO lawsuit, 2003 concessions. Maybe just a tiny tiny drop longer on the patience?

And yes I read the same comment on that rumor as you. Until it happens though that's all it still is, rumor. --So I guess we shouldn't do anything until all the shoes fall.

No No No. You should do exactly what you are doing and I also think pretty soon people are going to be joining you if they don't start hearing something soon. You're not alone on a Island in that regard.

 

 


 


 
It takes two to tango, but one side has refused while the other side has publicly said the right things and had an invitation open for preparations to begin. If the TWU would rather open a can of worms, publicly, then keep the actual fix of the situation (assuming there is a fix), then they get the brunt of the criticism.
 
They didn't even address the issue with the 4% raise announced on December 23rd. Suddenly there is a radio black-out and supposedly we are to believe they are working behind closed doors, which is how they needed to address the whole issue in the first place, not by picking a fight in public.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
It takes two to tango, but one side has refused while the other side has publicly said the right things and had an invitation open for preparations to begin. If the TWU would rather open a can of worms, publicly, then keep the actual fix of the situation (assuming there is a fix), then they get the brunt of the criticism.
 
They didn't even address the issue with the 4% raise announced on December 23rd. Suddenly there is a radio black-out and supposedly we are to believe they are working behind closed doors, which is how they needed to address the whole issue in the first place, not by picking a fight in public.

Was that original first letter publicized on the TWU website? NO. It was publicized on the Local 591 website who's President is a well known closet AMFA supporter. The agenda to inflame the issues was well choreographed and fallen for by unfortunately naive individuals who were played for other motivations besides possibly solving those issues in an amicable fashion. A chess game and maneuver that people fell for.

The new leaders of our International believe and supported autonomy. Meaning let the Locals know what was going on. A noble idea that apparently fell flat in their faces. So now you're right. NO ONE seems to be getting anything out of the top anymore. Complete radio black out, not even Morse code.

Once bitten, twice shy?

 

[NYer]

Was that original first letter publicized on the TWU website? NO. It was publicized on the Local 591 website who's President is a well known closet AMFA supporter. The agenda to inflame the issues was well choreographed and fallen for by unfortunately naive individuals who were played for other motivations besides possibly solving those issues in an amicable fashion. A chess game and maneuver that people fell for.

The new leaders of our International believe and supported autonomy. Meaning let the Locals know what was going on. A noble idea that apparently fell flat in their faces. So now you're right. NO ONE seems to be getting anything out of the top anymore. Complete radio black out, not even Morse code.

Once bitten, twice shy?

 
That is such a load of ......
 
It's not like it is unknown that certain people will be taking that type of information for their own motives. More reason to keep those conversations as conversation and not memorialized in a letter. And now, once that bottle is opened the fix is to keep the Membership in the dark? Hardly.
 
That entire situation was a charade and you're right, it was "well choreographed and fallen for by unfortunately naive individuals," except those naive individuals have yet to realize they fell for it.
 
...and if you want to believe you are correct or that the position taken by the leadership is correct then you are condoning the elimination of information in order to try and stop an individual and his attempt to manipulate that information...well, guess what. If that is true, then that individual has won and he dictates what another 20,000 Members receive...and he'd also be correct that there needs to be a change. Either way, the Members lose.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
That is such a load of ......

If you say it is?
 
It's not like it is unknown that certain people will be taking that type of information for their own motives. More reason to keep those conversations as conversation and not memorialized in a letter. And now, once that bottle is opened the fix is to keep the Membership in the dark? Hardly.

If something has become or became too sensitive for some to handle, maybe.
 
That entire situation was a charade and you're right, it was "well choreographed and fallen for by unfortunately naive individuals," except those naive individuals have yet to realize they fell for it.

Perhaps but only time will tell who are those naive and who are not? Can certain individuals though if they come to find out it was them who were the naive one's admit it? That's something I'd like to see.
 
...and if you want to believe you are correct or that the position taken by the leadership is correct then you are condoning the elimination of information in order to try and stop an individual and his attempt to manipulate that information...well, guess what. If that is true, then that individual has won and he dictates what another 20,000 Members receive...and he'd also be correct that there needs to be a change. Either way, the Members lose.

Debatable. Wikileaks and Julian Assange did an awful lot of damage didn't he?

BTW do you find it to be just a coincidence that for the first few weeks of the back and forth letters that the membership on FB were going at it tooth and nail against each other and then suddenly it just stopped? It just stopped on a dime and hasn't raised it's ugly head ever since.

What do you think happened there?

 

[WeAAsles]

If you worry less about what people think of you, you can pick up an astonishing amount of information about them. You no longer leave conversations wondering what just happened. Other people’s minds and motives are finally revealed.
 
There are no grown-ups. We suspect this when we are younger, but can confirm it only once we are the ones writing books and attending parent-teacher conferences. Everyone is winging it, some just do it more confidently.
 
People’s youthful quirks can harden into adult pathologies. What’s adorable at 20 can be worrisome at 30 and dangerous at 40. Also, at 40, you see the outlines of what your peers will look like when they’re 70.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/…/s…/what-you-learn-in-your-40s.html…

 

[NYer]

BTW do you find it to be just a coincidence that for the first few weeks of the back and forth letters that the membership on FB were going at it tooth and nail against each other and then suddenly it just stopped? It just stopped on a dime and hasn't raised it's ugly head ever since.

What do you think happened there?

 
The Membership was ceased to be trusted with information.
 
The internal issues concerning the Association agreement, as far as misunderstandings, should have been dealt with internally. Preparations for JCBA negotiations should not take a back seat to anything as collective bargaining is one of the most essential responsibilities of a union. They kept talking about seniority integration, why not negotiations prep.

 

[T5towbar]

 
Then again you thought the 3 little issues. which we have not heard about since, was going to be resolved in a quick fashion...I'd guess we won't even hear an update until the end of January.
 
You needed to care about the "nAAtives" before we got to this point.
 
Rumors are that UAL is about to close a significant amount of stations...so all this waiting is just making things more and more difficult. But hey, let's be patient. =/

We'll know something very soon. Rumors are that tomorrow (the 7th) we will know where the hammer will fall. 
Will it be a couple of rounds or all 27 (or 28)??
 
Whatever happens, it's going to be a bloodbath..........

 

[WeAAsles]

 
The Membership was ceased to be trusted with information.
 
The internal issues concerning the Association agreement, as far as misunderstandings, should have been dealt with internally. Preparations for JCBA negotiations should not take a back seat to anything as collective bargaining is one of the most essential responsibilities of a union. They kept talking about seniority integration, why not negotiations prep.

I don't really fly with the notion of prep but I do agree again over and over that the two sides should be conversing about the items they have in each others contract that they may consider to be sacrosanct?

Those items could buttress up against each other and cause friction if solutions, accommodations or compromises aren't reached BEFORE JCBA talks commence.

Hopefully individuals have reached out to each other over the phone at least?

And would someone please give the NMB a call already?

 

[WeAAsles]

We'll know something very soon. Rumors are that tomorrow (the 7th) we will know where the hammer will fall. 
Will it be a couple of rounds or all 27 (or 28)??
 
Whatever happens, it's going to be a bloodbath..........

I'm sorry to hear this T5. I hope it winds up being nothing more than a very bad rumor and if not hopefully it isn't a bloodbath?