1st Class Seats Removed from 757''s

[DHG750R]

Being no expert on airline finance101 , I would imagine that more seats on the same aircraft lowers your seat/mile cost. So in theory the 182 seat B757 which is probably one of the more economical aircraft on a seat/mile basis to operate becomes just a little cheaper to operate at 193 or 201 seats or whatever it will be . Thoughts?

On the subject of the A321 being the transcon aircraft .. It seems the aircraft''s not better suited for that, at least based on performance. Just my opinion...

Yes there is life after USAirways ....

 

[JS]

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On 5/13/2003 636 PM TomBascom wrote:

If your load factor is 75% you''re flying with empty seats and the swing between a few more empties in coach and a few less in F has no impact.

The only way that this can help at all is if it allows you to carry more customers. Adding the seats makes no difference until load factors are in the 90s.

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No, that is merely the average actual load factor. First of all, not every flight will carry the average load factor. There are full flights and there are less than full flights. On full flights the extra 11 seats will come in handy.

Secondly, you have to consider the seat inventory, not just the observed load factor. Airlines do not plan on selling only 75% of the seats on each flight. If you add 11 seats to the plane, and presumably add the same 11 seats to inventory, you will sell more seats in total even if the load factor remains the same.

 

[Hope777]

Its actually a net of 11 seats, but you will have an additional 27 seats in coach. I''m sure you will see more last minute low fares from Priceline and Hotwire to fill up those seats.

 

[TomBascom]

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On 5/14/2003 8:36:58 AM JS wrote:

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On 5/13/2003 636 PM TomBascom wrote:

If your load factor is 75% you''re flying with empty seats and the swing between a few more empties in coach and a few less in F has no impact.

The only way that this can help at all is if it allows you to carry more customers. Adding the seats makes no difference until load factors are in the 90s.

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No, that is merely the average actual load factor. First of all, not every flight will carry the average load factor. There are full flights and there are less than full flights. On full flights the extra 11 seats will come in handy.
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No doubt. But how often is that? 2% of the flights? 10%? 25%?

The answer greatly affects the payback period.

Secondly, you have to consider the seat inventory, not just the observed load factor. Airlines do not plan on selling only 75% of the seats on each flight. If you add 11 seats to the plane, and presumably add the same 11 seats to inventory, you will sell more seats in total even if the load factor remains the same.
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Build it and they will come? That''s what this argument amounts to. So why not put a 767 on the route and really sell some seats? (That''s a rhetorical question...)

I don''t question the idea that such a mix of seats might make sense under some circumstances. Specifically new (or reinvigorated) point to point routes from the Northeast to FL. But it''s very unclear if the plan is to actually deploy them in those circumstances or not.

I also question the "silver bullet to profitability" assumption that seems tied to this idea. Done right it might be an incremental step in a positive direction. But management''s track record isn''t encouraging so I remain skeptical.

 

[a320av8r]

The 321 actually is more efficient than the 757 on the long haul. The 321 will burn about 10,000lbs less fuel than the 757 on a leg from CLT to LAX even though initially we fly at lower altitudes. Boeing is coming out with the 737-900X (Super 737) that will be about the same size as the 321 to complete the 737 line and compete with the 321. The 321 is still a taller/wider cabin and more comfortable. Since the stretched 737''s there have been no new orders for the 757-200.

 

[sdavis29]

If your load factor is 75% you''re flying with empty seats and the swing between a few more empties in coach and a few less in F has no impact.

The only way that this can help at all is if it allows you to carry more customers. Adding the seats makes no difference until load factors are in the 90s.


the word is these a/c will be used to florida....
i still keep in touch with some at the ato.....all the florida flts are almost always full including the 757....inventory usually blocks 1st clas seats on depart day for overflow....they are almost always used....so adding 11 more seats in coach will be add revenue as more seats (even if it is only 11) can be sold..as it stands...the flt may show sold out, but there are still some seats ( 1st class usually ) so why not sell them at a price people will buy instead of letting them sit till departure time...
bottom line is if you want cheap seats to florida and the likes,
dont expect much more than a 2 hr ride....

 

[TomBascom]

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On 5/14/2003 10:02:04 PM sdavis29 wrote:
...all the florida flts are almost always full including the 757....inventory usually blocks 1st class seats on depart day for overflow....they are almost always used....so adding 11 more seats in coach will be add revenue as more seats (even if it is only 11) can be sold..as it stands...the flt may show sold out, but there are still some seats ( 1st class usually ) so why not sell them at a price people will buy instead of letting them sit till departure time...
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Most rational businesses that were constantly selling out would increase capacity (add flights) or raise prices.

This has supposedly been going on for months. What''s so hard about running a few more flights to Florida?

 

[mbmbbost]

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On 5/16/2003 8:25:33 AM TomBascom wrote:
Most rational businesses that were constantly selling out would increase capacity (add flights) or raise prices.

This has supposedly been going on for months. What's so hard about running a few more flights to Florida?

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[sdavis29]

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On 5/16/2003 8:25:33 AM TomBascom wrote:

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On 5/14/2003 10:02:04 PM sdavis29 wrote:
...all the florida flts are almost always full including the 757....inventory usually blocks 1st class seats on depart day for overflow....they are almost always used....so adding 11 more seats in coach will be add revenue as more seats (even if it is only 11) can be sold..as it stands...the flt may show sold out, but there are still some seats ( 1st class usually ) so why not sell them at a price people will buy instead of letting them sit till departure time...
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Most rational businesses that were constantly selling out would increase capacity (add flights) or raise prices.

This has supposedly been going on for months. What''s so hard about running a few more flights to Florida?

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you tell us..call ccy....i am on furlough because of 50% plus reduction...i guess the rational is fewer flt loose less money as we have been told forever that florida is a non money making dest..

 

[mbmbbost]

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On 5/16/2003 1:12:53 PM sdavis29 wrote:
...i guess the rational is fewer flt loose less money as we have been told forever that florida is a non money making dest..



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True, they have used that excuse forever. Someone should tell jetBlue and Southwest. Seems to me that the FL fares are some of the only ones that are not as low or lower than they were for the past few years. That''s my impression from watching the BOS and MHT flights to FL anyway. There''s GOT to be some value in these routes.

 

[JS]

Adding more flights instead of adding more seats to the existing planes would cost a lot more money. Same number of flights but with more seats requires the same number of pilots and flight attendants.

Speaking of Southwest and JetBlue, how many First Class seats do their Florida planes have? Or any of their planes for that matter? Seems like 8 is better than zero, no?

 

[TomBascom]

On 5/16/2003 10:40:41 PM JS wrote:

Adding more flights instead of adding more seats to the existing planes would cost a lot more money. Same number of flights but with more seats requires the same number of pilots and flight attendants.
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And just how expensive has it been to deal with an out of control overbooking situation?

Adding 5% more seats when, to hear some people talk, the routes are in a constant oversold state for months seems like spitting in the wind. Especially when there are planes in the desert and crews out on furlough.

If there are that many people wanting to fly to Florida it doesn't make sense to take such a limited approach to the problem.

It would make sense if these planes were going to be used to create new routes such as BOS-FLL etc. But that doesn't seem to be the plan.

Speaking of Southwest and JetBlue, how many First Class seats do their Florida planes have? Or any of their planes for that matter?
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US Airways shouldn't strive to be just like some other airline. That's a game that they cannot win.

Seems like 8 is better than zero, no?
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Sure seems like it. Time will tell.

 

[mbmbbost]

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On 5/16/2003 10:40:41 PM JS wrote:


Speaking of Southwest and JetBlue, how many First Class seats do their Florida planes have? Or any of their planes for that matter? Seems like 8 is better than zero, no?

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Zero would be just fine with me if I were going nonstop, actually preferable if I had to choose between connecting with first, or nonstop in coach. I''ve spent way too much of my time stuck in PHL or CLT with delays. If US is only offering connecting flights when the competition has nonstops, then they''d better offer some extra incentives to choose them.

 

[stewbear]

N628UA....My friend...thanks for the chuckle, The expectation that anyone in the utility dept would ever reply to a f/a request with concern is um..laughable at best. I and every crew member reading this board can tell you a story about no paper towels in the bathrooms, ink marks on first class seats(which you were given erasers for but never used)and food crumbs left all over first class seats and dirty galleys. Oh..and yea...this was when you had all the help in the go-go 90s. I know for a fact that when we needed extra paper towels or TP they were brought up to the jetway and and with a huff of indignation left there for the crew to install them. Now we are doing your job in numerous cities without any extra pay. And you are not alone..how many times the caterers or mechanics show up and roll their eyes when we report a shortage of supplies or problems in the cabin/galleys/jumpseats etc.. The F/A group is on those airplanes more than any of you ever will be and ..guess what..we know what the hell we are talking about. I always treat everyone of my coworkers (yes you too) with respect and willing to give them a break or try to understand their situation, it''s about time you did the same. Funny how no one shows up untill the Captain calls and makes the request..yea real funny.

 

[deelmakur]

I have been flying on commercial aircraft for many years. It wasn''t so long ago that coach seating had decent pitch. Flying in the front never occurred to many of us. Now comes the creation of "scrunch class", "thrombosis city", call it what you will. It is uncomfortable. Airlines seem to have the attitude many customers just want to game them for premium seats, and that there is no money to be made on serial upgraders. Perhaps they are right, but when you are operating a system where you require connections in many markets, while competitors go nonstop, it''s probably useful to offer a little extra. In truth, we are not a bunch of wannabe''s looking for status. Just a lttle space.