sky high states: That is correct. AA planes sat in PHL also, the entire day, friday. Saturday morning, they were all still there, covered in ICE. They had 5 or 6 jets on the jetways.
only stating opinions.
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
- 4,964
- 455
Now imagine if OCC was moved to PHX. What the hell would happen if a snowflake appeared on the radar east of the Mississippi? The company is at fault for this mess.
Thanks for the chuckle!! Pardon me but I have to go annoy UW Cactus some more.Later.
This was not shift of blame as youl would like to think. If anyone on this board thinks that the weather related dispatching, routing and cancellations is made from arizona, you're wrong. The only decisions made by arizona is the west operation when it comes to weather.
The majority of these cancellations...almost 400 came from the express operation and those people had to be shifted around a full operation in PHL and in CLT. I would agree the processing the huge numbers of people is slower...and not because ofsoley because of SHARES but the reality of the "learning curve"...THIS IS NOT TO BLAME AN EMPLOYEE!!! get that right Piney, it's a reality of a new system. I was stuck in the mess myself and when it gets bad, it's bad for the agents, they are constantly interrupted by questions while trying to concentrate on new way of doing things after many many years of knowing exactly what do to.
Don't try to turn my words around to support your bashing!
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
PineyBob -
I waited 45 minutes on Thursday for the PG desk -- the day BEFORE the storm. It's a mess and thank god I got of Florida early.
Later,
Eye
I waited 45 minutes on Thursday for the PG desk -- the day BEFORE the storm. It's a mess and thank god I got of Florida early.
Later,
Eye
BuffaloJoe
Veteran
- Aug 17, 2005
- 2,873
- 18
"I can tell you the outlook for tonight looks good. We have the flight crews available and the weather is holding up pretty well," Christie said.
Dan Stacey, 34, of Philadelphia, was at the airport Sunday trying to find his luggage. An Irish fiddler, Stacy had tried to fly on Friday to Phoenix, where he was slated to perform in four St. Patrick's Day concerts over the weekend.
Instead, he said he sat in a US Airways plane on the Philadelphia tarmac for eight hours. He then went back home.
"I lamented the fact that I was the only Irish musician in America not working on St. Patty's day," Stacey said.
"He couldn't even play at the airport, the guy lost his fiddle". (Read in Irish Dialec)
Dan Stacey, 34, of Philadelphia, was at the airport Sunday trying to find his luggage. An Irish fiddler, Stacy had tried to fly on Friday to Phoenix, where he was slated to perform in four St. Patrick's Day concerts over the weekend.
Instead, he said he sat in a US Airways plane on the Philadelphia tarmac for eight hours. He then went back home.
"I lamented the fact that I was the only Irish musician in America not working on St. Patty's day," Stacey said.
"He couldn't even play at the airport, the guy lost his fiddle". (Read in Irish Dialec)
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
weather + unhappy employye's = unhappy passengers .
I heard one couple sitting near me say they would never fly us again , i COULD have taken that moment to ask why and apolgize on behalf of my company , instead i just smiled . I want HQ to know that if you won't lift a finger to raise MY standard of living in the west i sure as heck won't do a DARN thing to help this companies PR .
Also about poor lorena , give her a break , she's most likely over worked and underpaid , she has to sit there listing to HUNDREDS of people (female dog ) at her all day , and when YOU finally get up to her , you throw hissy fit number 67 , do you think she even cares at that point? no , at that point she's just looking at her watching to see how much longer until she can clock out ,that's how most of us make it throu the day , we just do our pathetic little jobs until we can go home , very few of us care because they don't even pay us enough to feign compassion .
Finally about that couple i heard , they will proably be back , most all of the people who fly us are fare Wh#res anyways .
I heard one couple sitting near me say they would never fly us again , i COULD have taken that moment to ask why and apolgize on behalf of my company , instead i just smiled . I want HQ to know that if you won't lift a finger to raise MY standard of living in the west i sure as heck won't do a DARN thing to help this companies PR .
Also about poor lorena , give her a break , she's most likely over worked and underpaid , she has to sit there listing to HUNDREDS of people (female dog ) at her all day , and when YOU finally get up to her , you throw hissy fit number 67 , do you think she even cares at that point? no , at that point she's just looking at her watching to see how much longer until she can clock out ,that's how most of us make it throu the day , we just do our pathetic little jobs until we can go home , very few of us care because they don't even pay us enough to feign compassion .
Finally about that couple i heard , they will proably be back , most all of the people who fly us are fare Wh#res anyways .
OK
Let's accept your logic defying response for a second. Answer me this UWcactus,
Is it a "Learning Curve" that someone who does on line interactive learning seminars over the web can't seem to make the web site function?
Based on the above level of competency is it a "Learning Curve" that on 2 seperate occassions I was able to come up with the "fix" for OLCI on the itineraries BEFORE the "no help" desk did?
Is it a "Learning Curve" that a US west employee named "Lorena" was rude and unprofessional? Once she gets to the top of her curve with she then be able to add obnoxious to her frightening array of talents?
Is it a "Learning Curve" that the last Itinerary has managed to generate fare reciepts of $814, $663 & $407? depending how I looked up the trip. Looks like Jethro Bodine was practicing his cipherin's and goesinta's for Uncle Jed.
What "Learning curve" was it that allowed my colleague to be promptly notified and rebooked on the first available flight on CO to EWR?
And the final question is this. If it's the truth is it really bashing or don't you like have your bosses being held accountable?
Wasn't a hissy fit. I speak in a very level well modulated voice. I am firm and unyielding YES, but no hissy fit, I assure you.
I do however understand your point and it is well taken. I would urge you to instruct unhappy but sane, rational customers how to file a DOT complaint. Won't do much in the way of getting them compensation but it will put the heat where it belongs. Not on yours or Lorena's shoulders but at the doorstep of Parker, Kirby and they like. Let them start earning the big bucks and fix the problems.
First off Piney...the learning curve is in reference to the long waits in line, nothing more. As for your Lorena..I didn't even read that post.
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
ah piney bob you DO understand , sorry btw i ment nothing against your perspective at having to endure what ya did , i too would feel the same way , proably more agitated , it's just i tend to think only from my own perspective because we're all so Pissed off over here (west side!)and yes you are SPOT on about the DOT !
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
Is it just me, or do you go out of your way to dig up all of the negative press on other Airlines that you can find??
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34275
I think that you should be more concerned about where your own precious Delta is heading than the woes of other Airlines. If there is a negative press release on another Airline, you are certain to be the one that posts it. I'm going to have to keep a better eye out for dirt on Delta in the future so that I may post it on your board..It is a true loser such as yourself that has nothing better to do than this. I know the Delta board is pretty much dead now, but I would hope that you could find other ways to amuse yourself..
I guess that your own folk got sick and tired of your posts long ago..
CLTBWIDAYSYR
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 499
- 9
AW Cactus, I agree that the "learning curve" has some to do with this, but in CLT yesterday, the kiosks weren't working AGAIN. That has nothing to do with East employees. That has EVERYTHING to do with Tempe and poor planning.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
Any excuse in a storm.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
Just some FACTS for a change.
1) None of the forecast models predicted the ICE event to last as long as it did. Rain and snow events are much less a challenge as operating in an ICE event. By the time the forecasted models were changed, we were already behind the 8 ball.
2) The people making decisions related to East flying are the same people that had been making them prior to the merger. Tempe knows that there is a lot of expertise in the OCC and gives them a lot of leway when it comes to decision making.
3) Ask any veteran East employee with a memory - WE DO THIS EVERY YEAR! Ice storms in CLT. Blizzards in PHL. Last year we had a very similar incident in the North East. We cancelled over 400 flights, on the day of departure. These storms are very complicated to predict and a temperature variance of just a few degress makes all the difference in the world. You will either have a rain event or an ice event.
4) Part of the problem with recovery on Sat had to do with crews out of position. When you have a major crew base in PHL closed nearly all day and crew bases in DCA, LGA and BOS effected, crews are out of position. Compounding the problem were crews that were stuck at the airport in CLT - sleeping in airplanes because there were no hotel rooms available. Since these crews were never in hotel rooms, they were not legal to fly - which is an understandable safety issue. The CLT and PIT crew bases would not have the resources to "recrew" the entire airline.
5) The wait and hold times on the phone is an issue I am sure we could have planned better. Once the call volume spiked, additional staffing should have been called in. My question is, how many of you would have come to work, on your off day, or extended your shift knowing that you were going to be screamed at all day? Same with airport staffing. Sick calls spike during and after these events - who wants to come to work and deal with all that stress.
6) I can guarantee you that every senior manager in the company has been involved in the system recovery all weekend. No one is out on the golf course in Tempe. Managers, Directors, VP's have been in touch with all stations trying to assist in recovery.
7) When the PR person talks about 100K customers is somewhat true. When you cancel nearly 35-40% of your flying one day, and another 25% the next (my estimates), you are dealing with a lot of customers with interupted travel. When the system load factor is already at 90%+, there is not a lot of wiggle room to reaccommodate people. Add to that the fact that every other airline was reporting similar load factors and cancellations, it is extremely hard to find protection.
8) Someone mentioned extra sections - Great! Love to have some extra sections. Where do we get the airplanes to run them? Crews? It is not as easy as one would think. As an added complexity, you have to look at maintenance requirements for the airplanes that were supposed to be in a Maintenance station. A larg number of our Maintenance Facitillities were impacted by weather. You have a very short window of opportunity to get required work accomplished. This could lead to additional aircraft out of service as Facitilies like CLT are overwhelmed with additional airplanes.
Final thoughts.....While my intention was not to make a postin to make excuses for this event, it was to put some factual information out there. Did we totally screw up? ABSOLUTELY. Everything from planning (or not planning) for the event to how we responded after the fact. Have we made similar mistakes in the past. You bet. Dealing with weather is not an exact science. At the first talk of inclement weather in PHL, we should know better then to try and run a full schedule. Our response to our customers was far from perfect and we need to refine how we react to these types of situations. When there are delays and cancellations we need a system in place to get people taken care of quickly.
We are not the only airline that had problems this weekend. We are not the only airline still recovering. CO is still having operational issues. DL, Air Tran, JetBlue, Southwest are still in the recovery phase of the storm. You can't have the number of cancellations that took place this weekend, with the number of customers affected - industry wide - and expect to recover immediately. We did run some extra sections today to try and assist in moving customers out of PHL and CLT. You do what you can with what you have available.
Hopefully this was a lesson learned by all.
Respectfully....
1) None of the forecast models predicted the ICE event to last as long as it did. Rain and snow events are much less a challenge as operating in an ICE event. By the time the forecasted models were changed, we were already behind the 8 ball.
2) The people making decisions related to East flying are the same people that had been making them prior to the merger. Tempe knows that there is a lot of expertise in the OCC and gives them a lot of leway when it comes to decision making.
3) Ask any veteran East employee with a memory - WE DO THIS EVERY YEAR! Ice storms in CLT. Blizzards in PHL. Last year we had a very similar incident in the North East. We cancelled over 400 flights, on the day of departure. These storms are very complicated to predict and a temperature variance of just a few degress makes all the difference in the world. You will either have a rain event or an ice event.
4) Part of the problem with recovery on Sat had to do with crews out of position. When you have a major crew base in PHL closed nearly all day and crew bases in DCA, LGA and BOS effected, crews are out of position. Compounding the problem were crews that were stuck at the airport in CLT - sleeping in airplanes because there were no hotel rooms available. Since these crews were never in hotel rooms, they were not legal to fly - which is an understandable safety issue. The CLT and PIT crew bases would not have the resources to "recrew" the entire airline.
5) The wait and hold times on the phone is an issue I am sure we could have planned better. Once the call volume spiked, additional staffing should have been called in. My question is, how many of you would have come to work, on your off day, or extended your shift knowing that you were going to be screamed at all day? Same with airport staffing. Sick calls spike during and after these events - who wants to come to work and deal with all that stress.
6) I can guarantee you that every senior manager in the company has been involved in the system recovery all weekend. No one is out on the golf course in Tempe. Managers, Directors, VP's have been in touch with all stations trying to assist in recovery.
7) When the PR person talks about 100K customers is somewhat true. When you cancel nearly 35-40% of your flying one day, and another 25% the next (my estimates), you are dealing with a lot of customers with interupted travel. When the system load factor is already at 90%+, there is not a lot of wiggle room to reaccommodate people. Add to that the fact that every other airline was reporting similar load factors and cancellations, it is extremely hard to find protection.
8) Someone mentioned extra sections - Great! Love to have some extra sections. Where do we get the airplanes to run them? Crews? It is not as easy as one would think. As an added complexity, you have to look at maintenance requirements for the airplanes that were supposed to be in a Maintenance station. A larg number of our Maintenance Facitillities were impacted by weather. You have a very short window of opportunity to get required work accomplished. This could lead to additional aircraft out of service as Facitilies like CLT are overwhelmed with additional airplanes.
Final thoughts.....While my intention was not to make a postin to make excuses for this event, it was to put some factual information out there. Did we totally screw up? ABSOLUTELY. Everything from planning (or not planning) for the event to how we responded after the fact. Have we made similar mistakes in the past. You bet. Dealing with weather is not an exact science. At the first talk of inclement weather in PHL, we should know better then to try and run a full schedule. Our response to our customers was far from perfect and we need to refine how we react to these types of situations. When there are delays and cancellations we need a system in place to get people taken care of quickly.
We are not the only airline that had problems this weekend. We are not the only airline still recovering. CO is still having operational issues. DL, Air Tran, JetBlue, Southwest are still in the recovery phase of the storm. You can't have the number of cancellations that took place this weekend, with the number of customers affected - industry wide - and expect to recover immediately. We did run some extra sections today to try and assist in moving customers out of PHL and CLT. You do what you can with what you have available.
Hopefully this was a lesson learned by all.
Respectfully....
Dog Wonder
Veteran
But we are te only airline doing so badly at recovery we made the national news repeatedly.
In case you don't know, the same team who worked through the weather issues in years past are working through them now-- out of the OCC in PIT and they will do just as well. Wx in the NE is not an easy issue but the OCC will make the best of it!
