Your Top Ten

[Ch. 12]

Funguy,

Thanks for supporting what I have said so often about MCI.

As far as the "real" west (beyond MCI)...maybe U just needs to figure out how to do it right. Several carriers had tried transcon service (whether direct or hubbed) just prior to the recent outreaches of JB, WN, and FL, and they all deemed it as a failed model. BUT...the LCCs are proving everyone wrong. U cannot support the west with its current structure as it has three hubs in the NE (I know...CLT is the "south" but not as direct a connection point to the south as ATL. DFW, MEM, etc) and can only serve the west to NE segment. They need a better position to serve the west.

U's future "growth" is severely hindered by it's choice of three hubs within close proximity. This worked well when the east was the last region untouched by the LCCs and U could fly high yielding passengers up and down the coast, but they must revise to serve the current market.

So I agree...the West is not feasible with the current structure but it may have enough potential that it may warrant researching new angles to their plan.

 

[bofie]

SAN ANTONIO, Austin, Albuquerque, Portland, Orange County, OGG, KOA

 

[FlyOnWall]

Anyone think COS would benefit US? There seems to be a ton of originating traffice being as there are 4 military bases there. Aren't all of the other majors flying out of there? I know there is a code share with United in/out of there but should that really effect the expansion?

 

[bofie]

PLEASE not LHR. I hate that Ellis-Island-like customs line. I'll happily fly to LGW and avoid LHR.

For that matter, CDG is an annoying pain in the anatomy too.

 

[Non Rev]

How about Ft. Walton and Panama City FL? DL flies md80's to Panama City and NW flies from MEM.

I also agree SAT, AUS, SLC, and PDX would make excellent additions to the route structure. That would cover almost all the major metropolitan areas except SNA and SJC. It seems the carribbean is almost saturated few place left to fly down there.

MAA could serve DAB, MLB, DSM, OMA, & OKC, maybe TUL.

As all these rj's arrive it could be interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sfb]

I would think the 767-200ER could make it to TLV since it has longer legs than the A330-300. TWA managed JFK-TLV with the 767-300ER (if memory serves), and I think the 762ER has somewhat better range, unless I'm mistaken about US's 762's.

AUS, SAT, PDX, SJC, SNA, SLC, and ABQ seem to be the most glaring omissions out west, along with (possibly) RJ service to TUL and OKC. The problem with almost all nine of those cities is that WN is either the #1 or #2 carrier at each.

 

[700UW]

SFB I believe your info about the 767-200er vs the A330 is not correct, the 767 barely made the PHL-FCO route, the first international route the 330 was placed on was the PHL-FCO route to correct that problem.

 

[ITRADE]

I would think the 767-200ER could make it to TLV since it has longer legs than the A330-300. TWA managed JFK-TLV with the 767-300ER (if memory serves), and I think the 762ER has somewhat better range, unless I'm mistaken about US's 762's.

This would be an A332 route.

 

[Light Years]

AUS and SAT could be served with the Ejets. Would CLT-ABQ be stretching the range of the Embraer? TUL and OKC could get CRJs... I believe thats what most carriers have there now.

sfb, do you think PDX, SLC, SJC, and SNA could all be worth trying again with the combination of Star Alliance/United presence and new fare structure? US needs to increase its stage length and put those Airbuses somewhere... the Carribbean must be covered in navy by now.

 

[ITRADE]

AUS and SAT could be served with the Ejets. Would CLT-ABQ be stretching the range of the Embraer? TUL and OKC could get CRJs... I believe thats what most carriers have there now.

sfb, do you think PDX, SLC, SJC, and SNA could all be worth trying again with the combination of Star Alliance/United presence and new fare structure? US needs to increase its stage length and put those Airbuses somewhere... the Carribbean must be covered in navy by now.

CLT-ABQ is a long way on a RJ - but other carriers do flights that are just as long in 50 seaters.

My one concern is that US doesn't have much recognition in parts of the country.

Who remembers the start of flights (RJs) from PIT to OMA. From what I've heard and seen, those flights did not do at all well.

 

[sfb]

700UW-

Boeing claims 6600 nm range for the 767-200ER; PHL-TLV is 5015 nm. And I know Delta operated the 767-300ER JFK-CAI, as did Egyptair. Then again, US's -200ER's might not have the legs. I'm definitely not an expert. The A332's won't be in the fleet for a while and the published range is comparable to that of the 762ER.

I don't believe that Star Alliance feed would add a lot to PDX, SJC, SNA, SLC, etc. LH is the only European Star member into US's hubs and they can already feed passengers to those cities via ORD, DEN, SFO, IAD (and they already serve PDX). Air Canada serves some of those itself as well and would probably be more likely to send passengers via ORD or DEN than PHL, PIT, or CLT. The big problem for most of the unserved western cities is getting the fare/cost structure in line to be competitive. Right now you're just giving that traffic away to the other network carriers, though.

 

[funguy2]

Who remembers the start of flights (RJs) from PIT to OMA. From what I've heard and seen, those flights did not do at all well.

Exactly my point... I notice PIT-OMA is no longer part of the schedule. Great example.

 

[Ch. 12]

Exactly my point... I notice PIT-OMA is no longer part of the schedule. Great example.

And that illustrates my point. I don't think the west is a "dead issue" but they need to 1) get away from PIT- WC. Few in LA/SF/SD/SEA/PDX/etc) want to fly to PIT and 2) they need to realize that the WC is not OMA. Don't try PIT-OMA and say "the west coast wont' work".

If you say that U's WC window has closed due to the LCCs...what does that say about U's perceived "bread-and-butter" (the east coast)? That dried up long ago and there is U trying to apply the defibrillator on it once again.

 

[funguy2]

And that illustrates my point. I don't think the west is a "dead issue" but they need to 1) get away from PIT- WC. Few in LA/SF/SD/SEA/PDX/etc) want to fly to PIT and 2) they need to realize that the WC is not OMA. Don't try PIT-OMA and say "the west coast wont' work".

If you say that U's WC window has closed due to the LCCs...what does that say about U's perceived "bread-and-butter" (the east coast)? That dried up long ago and there is U trying to apply the defibrillator on it once again.

Well.. it says very bad things about US Airways EC route structure if nothing else changes...

I don't think the WC is a "dead" issue... But I don't see very many good alternatives. Certainly getting away from PIT is a good idea... can CLT-OMA be successful? PHL-OMA? I don't know. I do know that somehow DL/Comair makes CVG-OMA work 4x/day. I doubt that CVG has a significantly larger market to OMA than does PIT... How does DAL do it and US Airways fail? Is it really just we were there first?

If you are suggesting a new western hub, I just don't see it happening. When looking at the Pacific, Mountain, and Central Time Zones, I don't see any potential for a new hub. Cities large enough for a hub generally have at least one. Most other cities (even fairly small ones) already have significant LCC operations (mostly Southwest). The only cities with potential for an LCC that I see are ICT (didn't work out so well for AirTran) and COS (didn't work out for WestPac, but maybe its time to try again). MCI doesn't work as a hub, as has been proven 4 times now.

As far as PIT-WC... PIT-SNA/SJC were both dropped. PHL-SNA was scheduled, but I don't think it actually flew. If it did, it was very short in duration. SJC service was never attempted from CLT or PHL... Maybe that should be the next "experiment".

 

[Kev3188]

Not sure how DL is making OMA work, but NW has also expanded both mainline and express flying there quite a bit over the last couple of years.