Yield will Bankrupt AA

[WingNaPrayer]

I've not experienced any problems upgrading on a voucher yet. The only problem with them is you can't collect FF miles when traveling on them, unless you have a paid segment somewhere in the mix.

 

[DL Gold Medallion]

Over at DL they still give us Delta Dollars rather than a free flight voucher. Delta Dollars work exactly like cash at Delta. You can upgrade the seats, as long as you didn't buy an inSULT non-upgradeable fare with the voucher. IMHO these are much, much more valuable than other airlines' free ticket vouchers.

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 11/19/2002 11:53:22 AM DL Gold Medallion wrote:

Over at DL they still give us "Delta Dollars" rather than a "free flight" voucher. Delta Dollars work exactly like cash at Delta. You can upgrade the seats, as long as you didn't buy an "inSULT" non-upgradeable fare with the voucher. IMHO these are much, much more valuable than other airlines' free ticket vouchers.
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[/blockquote]

Yup that's a much more attractive option for the FF. And in a case like that the chances are pretty good that the customer is going to be putting at least some dollars into the transaction at rather than it being a pure freebie. So the airline gets revenue that it would not have obtained had they given out a free ticket.

 

[ITRADE]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/19/2002 1:39:58 PM TomBascom wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/19/2002 11:53:22 AM DL Gold Medallion wrote: [BR][BR]Over at DL they still give us "Delta Dollars" rather than a "free flight" voucher. Delta Dollars work exactly like cash at Delta. You can upgrade the seats, as long as you didn't buy an "inSULT" non-upgradeable fare with the voucher. IMHO these are much, much more valuable than other airlines' free ticket vouchers.[BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Yup that's a much more attractive option for the FF. And in a case like that the chances are pretty good that the customer is going to be putting at least some dollars into the transaction at rather than it being a pure freebie. So the airline gets revenue that it would not have obtained had they given out a free ticket.[BR]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I agree with both these observations. I'd also add that the vouchers come out of award inventory and can be difficult to use if you want to book it for a popular destination.

 

[magsau]

One way to solve the oversold ticket problem is to charge the passenger for the ticket whether or not they show. Much like a hotel room a seat is perishable. You could sell a stand-by only fare for those that like to take chances and those that do not show up.......well we have their money and they have some tickets to a football game that was played last sunday and it is no good anymore.

I never understand the uprising over the ticket change charge. If I wanted to go to a college football game that was sold out, should I be able to take my ticket from the game a week before that I did not attend and be allowed to enter the stadium on a stand-by basis. Football, Baseball, Theater, Hotel rooms and Airline Seats are all perishable commodities.

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 11/20/2002 11:34:14 AM magsau wrote:

One way to solve the oversold ticket problem is to charge the passenger for the ticket whether or not they show. Much like a hotel room a seat is perishable. You could sell a stand-by only fare for those that like to take chances and those that do not show up.......well we have their money and they have some tickets to a "football game" that was played last sunday and it is no good anymore.

I never understand the uprising over the ticket change charge. If I wanted to go to a college football game that was sold out, should I be able to take my ticket from the game a week before that I did not attend and be allowed to enter the stadium on a "stand-by" basis. Football, Baseball, Theater, Hotel rooms and Airline Seats are all perishable commodities.
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[/blockquote]

I can cancel a hotel reservation and I still have my money. Not so with an airline ticket.

The seat is not perishable. The position in the queue for the seat is perishable and that is what is being sold.

Another major difference between an airline seat and all of those other things is fungibility -- I can give (or sell) my ticket to a sporting event to someone else. I can't do that with an airline ticket.

And on and on...

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/20/2002 11:34:14 AM magsau wrote:
[P]One way to solve the oversold ticket problem is to charge the passenger for the ticket whether or not they show. Much like a hotel room a seat is perishable. You could sell a stand-by only fare for those that like to take chances and those that do not show up.......well we have their money and they have some tickets to a football game that was played last sunday and it is no good anymore.[BR][BR]I never understand the uprising over the ticket change charge. If I wanted to go to a college football game that was sold out, should I be able to take my ticket from the game a week before that I did not attend and be allowed to enter the stadium on a stand-by basis. Football, Baseball, Theater, Hotel rooms and Airline Seats are all perishable commodities.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]I'd almost agree magsau, if you make one little exception - make the ticket transferable. If I have tickets for a football game and can't go, I can always sell them to another fan who CAN go, or I can GIVE them to my brother who want's to go. Same deal with a movie, theatre ticket, or baseball game. Try that with an airline ticket. That way, you have your money, I have my money, and somebody actually got to use the item that was sold. [BR][BR]I do have a problem with the upcharge though...If I have a ticket on the 20 yard line in the nosebleed section, but really wanted seats on the 50 behind the bench, I go to the ticket window and see if I can exchange the ticket and pay the difference. They don't charge me an extra $100 to get a better seat. And if they don't offer an exchange program, I can still by the 50 yard line ticket at face value, and then, going back to paragraph 1 - I can always sell or give the 20 yard line tickets to someone else who can use them.[BR][BR]As far as hotel rooms go, unless I buy the room on Hotwire or Priceline, I've got all the way up to 6:00 p.m. of the day of my stay to call and tell them sorry. No charge for that either. [/P]

 

[ITRADE]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/20/2002 2:39:53 PM TomBascom wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE]I can cancel a hotel reservation and I still have my money. Not so with an airline ticket.[BR][BR]The seat is not perishable. The position in the queue for the seat is perishable and that is what is being sold.[BR][BR]Another major difference between an airline seat and all of those other things is fungibility -- I can give (or sell) my ticket to a sporting event to someone else. I can't do that with an airline ticket.[BR][BR]And on and on...[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]True to a point. A lot of hotels now have 24 or 48 hour cancellation policies. And, in fact, some hotels (Marriott and Radisson) have discounted weekend rates which require advance purchase and are not refundable.[/P]

 

[WingNaPrayer]

[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/20/2002 7:36:31 PM [STRONG]MrMarky[/STRONG] [EM]wrote[/EM]: [BR][BR][BR]OR...you could save yourself a lot of hassle and just stay home and watch the game on TV, which is the equivelant to what a lot of business travelers have chosen to do. [BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Oooooooo..... [EM]game[/EM]....[EM]set[/EM].... [EM]Match! [/EM]Well said!

 

[MrMarky]

[blockquote]
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On 11/20/2002 2:55:55 PM KCFlyer wrote:

If I have tickets for a football game and can't go, I can always sell them to another fan who CAN go, or I can GIVE them to my brother who want's to go.
I do have a problem with the upcharge though...If I have a ticket on the 20 yard line in the nosebleed section, but really wanted seats on the 50 behind the bench, I go to the ticket window and see if I can "exchange" the ticket and pay the difference. They don't charge me an extra $100 to get a better seat. And if they don't offer an "exchange" program, I can still by the 50 yard line ticket at face value, and then, going back to paragraph 1 - I can always sell or give the 20 yard line tickets to someone else who can use them.
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[/blockquote]

OR...you could save yourself a lot of hassle and just stay home and watch the game on TV, which is the equivelant to what a lot of business travelers have chosen to do.

 

[planemech669]

Very true. Vidconferencing and other IT technologies are booming these days, and it beats traveling 3 to 6 hours just for a 1 hour meeting. The airline industry's cash cow has had it's fill of grain and has walked away from the trough. From now on air travel is going to be a more balanced mix of those doing business and those traveling to see grandma. Have to make traveling by air as effortless as hopping in the car and driving across town to make this new market really work. (Nice pipedream, eh?)

 

[TWAnr]

[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/20/2002 2:39:53 PM TomBascom wrote: [BR][BR]I can cancel a hotel reservation and I still have my money. Not so with an airline ticket.[BR][BR]The seat is not perishable. The position in the queue for the seat is perishable and that is what is being sold.[BR][BR]Another major difference between an airline seat and all of those other things is fungibility -- I can give (or sell) my ticket to a sporting event to someone else. I can't do that with an airline ticket.[BR][BR]And on and on...[BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]When you pay the full unrestricted fare for an airline ticket, you can cancel your reservation, change it, get your money back and even have the ticket reissued for travel by another person.[BR][BR]If you elect to purchase a discounted ticket, there are tradeoffs.[BR][BR]You get what you pay for. It is all about supply and demand.

 

[KCFlyer]

[blockquote]
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On 11/21/2002 12:30:40 PM TWAnr wrote:

When you pay the full unrestricted fare for an airline ticket, you can cancel your reservation, change it, get your money back and even have the ticket reissued for travel by another person.

If you elect to purchase a discounted ticket, there are tradeoffs.

You get what you pay for. It is all about supply and demand.[/P]
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[/blockquote]

I suppose the problem is this - If the choice is a nonrefundable hotel room, the savings is only about $20 for me, so I just book the fully refundable hotel room to get that added flexiblity. The difference between a non-refundable and fully refundable airline ticket is often times thousands of dollars. Not worth booking it. If the fare difference of a fully refundable airline ticket wasn't 8 to 10 times the advance purchase fare, you might find more people opting to purchase the ticket that allows you the full flexiblity. If you don't believe that, why do you think that so many companies still try to skirt the advance purchase rules with back to back and hidden city ticketing?

 

[Tango-Bravo]

[blockquote]
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On 11/21/2002 8:40:36 AM planemech669 wrote:

Very true. Vidconferencing and other IT technologies are booming these days, and it beats traveling 3 to 6 hours just for a 1 hour meeting. The airline industry's cash cow has had it's fill of grain and has walked away from the trough. From now on air travel is going to be a more balanced mix of those doing business and those traveling to see grandma. Have to make traveling by air as effortless as hopping in the car and driving across town to make this new market really work. (Nice pipedream, eh?)
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[/blockquote]

True... with one exception. For some years leisure pax have outnumbered business pax by a ratio of somwhere between 2:1 and 3:1 if the airlines' own numbers are reliable. Regardless of whether it's the airlines business travelers allegedly prefer or their low-cost competition, the numbers are more or less the same on a systemwide basis. Those numbers are, IMO, largely skewed due to the way in which the full-service majors differentiate bewteen business travelers and leisure travelers. Seems that only the shrinking handful of pax who pay an average of 5 times more than leisure pax on the same flight are counted as business pax. In reality, well over 50% of actual business pax are traveling on restricted fares at a fraction of the cost of so-called business fares --within the rules of the fare or by beating the cartel airlines at their own games (ie, back-to-back ticketing, etc.) Likewise, a very few hapless leisure pax are counted as business pax due to being unable to book in advance for whatever reason. All of which is yet another example of how hopelessly out-of-touch with reality the managements of the Big Six have become.

 

[TomBascom]

According to Amex travel 88% of corporate travel bookings are now what the airlines classify as leisure.

I was on some SWA flights today. It looks to me like at least half of their customers are on business. (I won't bother going into how amazing it is to see happy customers waiting to board planes -- even with flight delays, gate changes, late departures and so on and so forth... it's amazing.)