X- TWA flight attendants still hope to return to the skies

[MCI transplant]

He wasn't too bright.

<_< ----- Nobody can argue that point! But than, all those connected with AA were brandishing that word around Congress in those days!

 

[conniegirl]

Connie,

This is the difference between what we (AAFAs) feel and what you (TWAFAs) do. I still look on it as a fair and equitable treatment of employees of an airline we acquired. It couldn't be more simple and you guys prove that everytime you open your mouths and label yourselves TWA. It was a different airline. At one time, it was a great airline. It no longer exists.

You guys helped build that airline up to the great airline it was and management decisions during the usual cyclical industry patterns put it out of business.

It wouldn't have been fair to the AA employees who were at the more solvent airline to lose seniority at THEIR airline.

I'm not top payscale and I lost a lot of my vacation. The former TWA folks get paid a helluva lot more to come to work than I do and they have some sweet vacation time. Such is life. I only wanted my seniority. I got it.

What you, and many other people that you used to work with fail to understand is what you tell us we fail to understand. At one time TWA had the top service in the industry. The TWA people coming to AA now are seeing a gutted version of what we were 10 years ago. We had a surplus of everything back then. As little as 10 years ago we were carving roasts in F. We had caviar on transcons. All of our cabin interiors were pristine. We had so many FAs working we tripped over each other. If a carpet got wet inflight or had a stain we'd report it and the first person at the open door when we pulled in was the cabin service guy with a carpet roll ready to replace it. We NEVER had an inop sticker on anything unless we placed it there on that flight. Whatever we tagged was immediately fixed when we arrived. Everything was managed down to the smallest factor and quality was always top notch.

I worked for 2 other airlines before this and one was a major. The quality of the AA operation was better than other airlines even during good times. I used to laugh at how spoiled the AAFAs were because they never had to experience a mismatched plane interior, a dirty plane, or improvise because they weren't given the products they needed on a flight. One of the reasons I think many FAs turned to the dark side and became uncaring is because in one fell swoop AA went from being top notch to mediocre and it was just too much for people that were used to having the best to become accustomed to. Those are the minority though. Others have learned to improvise and still manage to give the best service they can using what little they are given.

If 9/11 hadn't happened all of the competition and negativity wouldn't be an issue for most people.

You'll get no argument from me re: how the AA flight attendant opinions differ from those of TWA - that's been patently obvious the past seven years. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that you all were not willing to compromise one inch with a day of senority. We (I) get that.

And I too remember our airline being what you describe. The funny thing about life is that, in our hubris, we NEVER thought we'd be anything but in first place. And when the long, slow deterioration began, it took awhile to awaken and realize that things just weren't the way they'd been.

My whole point in my original post was that the day that we had at TWA (our awakening if you will) has already come and gone for AA. You are where we were just about the time that you marched into our lives. The immaculate aircraft, beautifully groomed flight attendants, good food....all those things no longer exist at AA. The irony is that 6 or 7 years ago the AA flight attendants turned their noses up at us as a bunch of yokels, because we were the "failed" carrier and they were riding on top of the world. How things change.

That's why I mentioned the nickname the AA f/a's in Honolulu used for us...(they made certain we heard it in the lobby of the hotel). The "Clampetts", or sometimes "the Hoosiers". Funny how life turns around and gives you a bit back. You may remember the good old days, as do I, but those days are gone and I would hope a bit of humility and humanity might surface at this point.

Don't forget that AA didn't get the nomenclature "sky Nazis" for nothing (or as a dear friend of mine who flew for you all for many years said when I asked him about Crandall, and his reputation as an SOB..."Hey, he may be an SOB, but he's OUR SOB). As I said, I fly a lot. I also have pass priveleges on another major carrier so I'm doubly covered. That other airline has seen some tough times, also, but they rose from the ashes and are splendid now. Immaculate aircraft, dedicated agents and flight attendants, they took their lemons and made lemonade. And because they'd been through their bad times , they used that to make themselves better. Those bad timesalso gave them some compassion and caring and humility, and I know for a fact that a merger between two flight attendant workforces did NOT result in one group having everything removed from them. So why the difference between that other airline and the people at AA?

I'd like to ask one question. You mention vacation and pay. If push came to shove, right now, and AA offered you the option of taking your senority OR continuing at your pay level, what would you choose? I'd guess you'd opt for senority, because senority will always "buy" a paycheck.

I'm under no illusion that select TWA f/a's ruffled feathers at APFA because they came "in" the front door demanding the entire package. But the rest of us just asked to be treated fairly.....STL was supposed to be our ghetto, remember Chris? Even that was taken away from our group and AA flight attendants benefitted at our expense.

In closing, and I think for me to continue posting will just perpetuate all of our repeating our positions ad nauseum, I'd once again like to offer my best wishes to everyone for a good '09. These are tough times in our industry...my hope for all is that 2009 brings good wishes to all employees.

ConnieGirl

 

[IORFA]

$50 or $20, I'll take the pay and vacation. Thanks for asking.

 

[aafsc]

I'm glad the US Congress decided to define "fair and equitable" and not you. APFA cannot do that again. By the way, John Ward in his written testimony to Congress labeled in bold headlines the transaction as a MERGER.

A merger? I have been a shareholder of AMR since the late 1990s and don't ever recall receiving a ballot to vote on a merger with TWA.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Christ on a bright red bike,how many more times are we going to go over this same ground?

 

[Winglet]

Unfortunately there's nothing left of TWA, no value, no nothing except a huge bill for the integration, which is exactly what AA'ers knew would happen and why they stapled the TWA FA's. The pilots should have done the same thing.

 

[tfc767]

I'm glad the US Congress decided to define "fair and equitable" and not you. APFA cannot do that again. By the way, John Ward in his written testimony to Congress labeled in bold headlines the transaction as a MERGER.

Bill,

I believe the new legislation should have been in place the whole time, since neutral arbitration is considered the acceptable way to integrate work forces.

It just so happens that the AA-TWA deal was crafted by APA/APFA with the help of a hired neutral arbitrator who helped craft the agreement along the lines of what a neutral arbitrator would have done. Essentially, had our deal gone to neutral arbitration, the outcome would have probably been the same. However, since the PROCESS would have been fair (neutral arbitration), I suspect it would have been somewhat easier to swallow by TWA employees - even though they would have still labeled it as "unfair" - as opposed to being forced to take the deal by the company and unions.

That said, AA was not the first, not by a long shot. It has happened before. Not justifying it, but rather noting that, until stuff becomes law, corporate America will always try and get away with whatever they can.

/r,
tfc

 

[Skymess]

And when the long, slow deterioration began, it took awhile to awaken and realize that things just weren't the way they'd been.

I have to wonder if you were lucky in that respect. Sometimes it's easier to deal with something if you get used to it in small stages. But, maybe not. It's hard to lose something period.

My whole point in my original post was that the day that we had at TWA (our awakening if you will) has already come and gone for AA. You are where we were just about the time that you marched into our lives. The immaculate aircraft, beautifully groomed flight attendants, good food....all those things no longer exist at AA. The irony is that 6 or 7 years ago the AA flight attendants turned their noses up at us as a bunch of yokels, because we were the "failed" carrier and they were riding on top of the world. How things change.

That's why I mentioned the nickname the AA f/a's in Honolulu used for us...(they made certain we heard it in the lobby of the hotel). The "Clampetts", or sometimes "the Hoosiers". Funny how life turns around and gives you a bit back. You may remember the good old days, as do I, but those days are gone and I would hope a bit of humility and humanity might surface at this point.

Not really sure you got your info correct. At AA, I know of noone who refers/referred to TWA as the clampetts. That's always been the catch phrase for the amateur flyers who have no airplane manners. As much as we all (those I know and have flown with and discussed TWA with) detested the countless arguments and lawsuits you guys brought we never devalued your collective time given and experiences as a supreme carrier in your hey day.

Don't forget that AA didn't get the nomenclature "sky Nazis" for nothing (or as a dear friend of mine who flew for you all for many years said when I asked him about Crandall, and his reputation as an SOB..."Hey, he may be an SOB, but he's OUR SOB). As I said, I fly a lot. I also have pass priveleges on another major carrier so I'm doubly covered. That other airline has seen some tough times, also, but they rose from the ashes and are splendid now. Immaculate aircraft, dedicated agents and flight attendants, they took their lemons and made lemonade. And because they'd been through their bad times , they used that to make themselves better. Those bad timesalso gave them some compassion and caring and humility, and I know for a fact that a merger between two flight attendant workforces did NOT result in one group having everything removed from them. So why the difference between that other airline and the people at AA?

Crandall was loved because he was a SOB but he was a leader. He led AA through tough times and good times. Arpey is at the helm now and he should be the CFO not the CEO. He's an amazing bean counter and has led us through the past 9 years without having to declare bankruptcy. He just doesn't have the skills to be an innovator or to understand the value of aesthetics...apparently. Other airlines have figured out that passengers like amenities and clean planes. Arpey considers the pennies behind every move we make. It's kind of like the families who buy store name items instead of brand names to save money but they sacrifice taste and style as a result of being frugal. It's time for Arpey to take a backseat.

I'd like to ask one question. You mention vacation and pay. If push came to shove, right now, and AA offered you the option of taking your senority OR continuing at your pay level, what would you choose? I'd guess you'd opt for senority, because senority will always "buy" a paycheck.

When we bought TWA it was about seniority for me and it still is. Remember, none of us knew we'd lay off and seniority would mean furloughs. We all chose seniority as our issue.

I'm under no illusion that select TWA f/a's ruffled feathers at APFA because they came "in" the front door demanding the entire package. But the rest of us just asked to be treated fairly.....STL was supposed to be our ghetto, remember Chris? Even that was taken away from our group and AA flight attendants benefitted at our expense.

I don't pretend to know anything about STL then or now. I've only been through there once.

In closing, and I think for me to continue posting will just perpetuate all of our repeating our positions ad nauseum, I'd once again like to offer my best wishes to everyone for a good '09. These are tough times in our industry...my hope for all is that 2009 brings good wishes to all employees.

Me too.

 

[Skymess]

I'm glad the US Congress decided to define "fair and equitable" and not you. APFA cannot do that again. By the way, John Ward in his written testimony to Congress labeled in bold headlines the transaction as a MERGER.

We'll see how that one shakes out in the future. My guess is there's a way around everything.

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

We'll see how that one shakes out in the future. My guess is there's a way around everything.

You have way too much time on your hands.