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'wrong' Amendment Back In The News
- Thread starter swflyer
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As I read it, they're cutting DAL flights because they can make more money with the aircraft at other locations. One of the reasons they can make more money at other locations is a better network effect. The reason for the better network effect outside of DAL is the Wright Amendment.
Now, they could move to DFW, but doing so would erode several of their competitive advantages in the Metroplex.
Besides, there are still so many other opportunities to pursue. Adding flights in Pennsylvania requires either adding aircraft or drawing down elsewhere, or both. Looks like they're doing both, with some of the drawdown coming from DAL.
But, truth be told, I doubt that they're drawing down because DAL isn't profitable. It has more to do with strategic growth and recognition of where the battles lie.
Now, they could move to DFW, but doing so would erode several of their competitive advantages in the Metroplex.
Besides, there are still so many other opportunities to pursue. Adding flights in Pennsylvania requires either adding aircraft or drawing down elsewhere, or both. Looks like they're doing both, with some of the drawdown coming from DAL.
But, truth be told, I doubt that they're drawing down because DAL isn't profitable. It has more to do with strategic growth and recognition of where the battles lie.
What WN's doing makes good sense:
Very short haul air travel (WN's bread and butter from Love because of the Wright ammendment) was hit harder and has rebounded less than, say, transcons. They'll still do good business from Love, but they can probably cut 1 or 2 of the ~20 flights a day to Houston and deploy the aircraft say at PIT.
Adding ATA code share out of DFW would take the pressure off the the Mayors and politicians to repeal or substantially change the flight amendment. I'm sure they want to keep that pressure up as high as they can.
The whining from DFW is pathetic. It has plenty of critical mass, DFW is the more accessible airport for probably 3/4 of the metroplex polpulation given how the burbs have grown, so letting WN add some long-hauls out of Love will not hurt DFW. It may put a crimp in some of AA's yields, but there are only some many flights WN can add before they run out of terminal space at Love.
Very short haul air travel (WN's bread and butter from Love because of the Wright ammendment) was hit harder and has rebounded less than, say, transcons. They'll still do good business from Love, but they can probably cut 1 or 2 of the ~20 flights a day to Houston and deploy the aircraft say at PIT.
Adding ATA code share out of DFW would take the pressure off the the Mayors and politicians to repeal or substantially change the flight amendment. I'm sure they want to keep that pressure up as high as they can.
The whining from DFW is pathetic. It has plenty of critical mass, DFW is the more accessible airport for probably 3/4 of the metroplex polpulation given how the burbs have grown, so letting WN add some long-hauls out of Love will not hurt DFW. It may put a crimp in some of AA's yields, but there are only some many flights WN can add before they run out of terminal space at Love.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #139
Southwest Airlines Respectfully Declines DFW Incentive Offer
Friday January 21
DALLAS, Jan 21, 2005 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- After carefully considering the incentive package recently offered by DFW International Airport, Southwest Airlines (LUV) says the offer does not override its preference for Love Field and has decided to respectfully decline the offer.
The incentive package, sent to a comprehensive list of 45 airlines, does not fulfill Southwest's commitment to continue offering its Customers the high frequency, low fare Customer Service which it originated at Love Field in 1971. DFW was not designed for Southwest's unique, non-hub, operating style of high frequency, point-to-point flights that are dependent upon high Employee productivity and efficient utilization of assets, and is not the type of airport it historically chooses to serve, when it has a choice. The Southwest model, built in its earliest days at Love Field, however, has translated very well to other carefully selected markets and airports over 33 years. Southwest does not feel it would be a good, sound business decision to now abandon a Love Field model that has allowed Southwest, alone among major carriers, to sustain 32 consecutive years of profitability while consistently offering Customers the lowest fares in the market and its Employees total job security. Furthermore, splitting Southwest's operations between Love Field and DFW would have the inevitable consequence of causing a further loss of passengers at Love Field -- which is steadily declining.
Southwest's 33-year history is proof positive that when fares decrease, passenger demand (traffic) increases for all airlines. Southwest continues to believe that Southwest's positive impact on lowering airfares within the Metroplex from an unfettered Love Field will stimulate demand for air travel at both Love Field and DFW airports. North Texas is best served by DFW continuing to act aggressively and creatively to attract additional airlines to this market, rather than to wage an expensive battle against Love Field, hometown airline competition and consumer fare savings.
Southwest continues to support the Love Field Master Plan which caps the number of gates at Love Field at 32. The Master Plan was designed to ensure that growth at Love Field is not a burden to either DFW or the neighborhoods around Love Field.
http://www.southwest.com
SOURCE Southwest Airlines
Friday January 21
DALLAS, Jan 21, 2005 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- After carefully considering the incentive package recently offered by DFW International Airport, Southwest Airlines (LUV) says the offer does not override its preference for Love Field and has decided to respectfully decline the offer.
The incentive package, sent to a comprehensive list of 45 airlines, does not fulfill Southwest's commitment to continue offering its Customers the high frequency, low fare Customer Service which it originated at Love Field in 1971. DFW was not designed for Southwest's unique, non-hub, operating style of high frequency, point-to-point flights that are dependent upon high Employee productivity and efficient utilization of assets, and is not the type of airport it historically chooses to serve, when it has a choice. The Southwest model, built in its earliest days at Love Field, however, has translated very well to other carefully selected markets and airports over 33 years. Southwest does not feel it would be a good, sound business decision to now abandon a Love Field model that has allowed Southwest, alone among major carriers, to sustain 32 consecutive years of profitability while consistently offering Customers the lowest fares in the market and its Employees total job security. Furthermore, splitting Southwest's operations between Love Field and DFW would have the inevitable consequence of causing a further loss of passengers at Love Field -- which is steadily declining.
Southwest's 33-year history is proof positive that when fares decrease, passenger demand (traffic) increases for all airlines. Southwest continues to believe that Southwest's positive impact on lowering airfares within the Metroplex from an unfettered Love Field will stimulate demand for air travel at both Love Field and DFW airports. North Texas is best served by DFW continuing to act aggressively and creatively to attract additional airlines to this market, rather than to wage an expensive battle against Love Field, hometown airline competition and consumer fare savings.
Southwest continues to support the Love Field Master Plan which caps the number of gates at Love Field at 32. The Master Plan was designed to ensure that growth at Love Field is not a burden to either DFW or the neighborhoods around Love Field.
http://www.southwest.com
SOURCE Southwest Airlines
DFW *was* designed for O&D travel. Why do you think the gates are arranged in a semicircle rather than long hallways? It's so that you can park, walk right in to the terminal, and walk right up to the gate (similar to MCI). AA has made DFW a large connecting hub, but that is definitely not what the DFW designers had in mind, since large connecting hubs didn't exist in the 1960's.
Another question: why is Southwest codesharing to PIE on ATA? The fact that they will allow a passenger to choose PIE or TPA but not DAL or DFW is evidence that the lack of a DFW codeshare is 100% politics and 0% operations. If you want to play politics, fine, but please don't lie and say that DFW operations won't work for Southwest or even an ATA codeshare.
If you've been to both PIE and TPA like I have, you will wonder why the heck Southwest flies out of TPA but not PIE.
PIE is the size of DAL with the traffic congestion of DAL (i.e., none). TPA is just like DFW with its massive crowds.
At TPA, you are forced to take one of those stupid trains 1/10th of a mile from the terminal to the gates. You aren't even allowed to walk. At least at DFW you can walk a short distance from short-term parking (or drop-off) into the terminal and right to the gate. Terminal E is big enough that Southwest would never need more than one terminal at DFW, which would make both connections and O&D a piece of cake.
Elivs Lives
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- Aug 23, 2002
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If you want to play politics, fine, but please don't lie and say that DFW will be destroyed if the Wright Amendment is repealed.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #142
Guess CAL and UAL were smart enough to demand the old DIA be bulldozed when the new one was built. Should have happened at Luv. Repeal the amendment if and only if all the gates go back on the market and are bid out at their market value. SWA knew the rules when they set up shop there.
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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Busdrvr said:
Bussie...the rules didn't exist when Southwest set up shop there. The WA was enacted several years after Southwest set up shop there...in other words, there was NOTHING on the books limiting where they could fly when they "set up shop". It was only after they started flying outside the borders of Texas that Jim Wright came to the "rescue" of DFW.
KCFlyer said:
The original plan was to close Love Field. Southwest convinced the feds to let them stay since they weren't around when the bond agreements were signed.
The next set of rules was that Love Field would be limited to intrastate flights only, as that would not be subject to federal regulation as dictated by the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution.
Southwest brought the Wright Amendment onto itself when they chose to start interstate flights to MSY, and Congress got involved to clarify the rules about Love Field. Congress could have said "no interstate flights, period", so it was a partial victory for Southwest.
More rules ... AA and everyone else were forced out of Love Field. They have never been allowed to return to Love Field (though AA has done a few exception flights).
Yet more rules ... the Love Field master plan limits Love Field to 32 gates, ensuring that if both the Wright Amendment and the DFW bond agreements were repealed but not the 32 gate DAL limit, Southwest would still have a Love Field fortress hub.
Southwest had better not get too cocky or they may be sorry they ever upset their prized Love Field situation that they have almost entirely to themselves.
To paint the historical picture behind Southwest's service at DAL correctly:
In 1968, before Southwest began flying (at the time, they were grounded by challenges in court brought by some of the airlines already at DAL), the DFW Airport Board obtained agreements from the 8 CAB-certificated carriers serving DAL at the time that they would move all operations to the new D/FW Regional Airport at such time that it opened. Southwest began flying from DAL in 1971, three years before DFW opened, and they never signed any agreements to move their operations to DFW. And, in fact, before DFW opened, Southwest notified the City of Dallas and the DFW Airport Board that they would not be moving their flights to DFW, as they had never signed any agreement to do so.
There were several lawsuits attempting to compel SWA to move its flights from DAL to DFW; Southwest won all of them. The City of Dallas attempted to force Southwest to move by passing an ordinance imposing a fine for each commercial flight at DAL; this was repudiated by the federal courts. The City of Dallas was unable to close Love Field to Southwest given that they had accepted federal money for improvements to the airport.
The real impetus behind the passage of the Wright Amendment in 1979, eight years after Southwest began operations at DAL, was the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. With domestic routes deregulated, Southwest (or any other carrier that had not been party to the agreements signed in 1968) would be able to fly from DAL to any point in the U.S. So, in essence, the rules were changed at DAL well after Southwest began service there.
In any case, I'm sure a big part of why Southwest has no interest in serving DFW is the airport's multibillon dollar Capital Development Program which largely serves only the interests of AA. The nearly $2 billion spent on the train ($850M) and International Terminal D ($1080M) offers little benefit to airlines which don't operate out of multiple terminals and don't offer international service from DFW. And yet, all the airlines at DFW will end up paying for those costly improvements -- to the tune of several dollars per passenger just in debt service. I'm sure that's a good part of why Delta pulled the plug on its DFW hub -- they couldn't make the numbers work if they had to shell out an additional $30-50 million per year to the airport. And what I really don't get is why it cost DFW $400 million more than IAH to build an international terminal with one more gate and less capacity to process international passengers (IAH's Terminal E & IAB cost $665 million together).
While I agree that DFW's terminals are well-suited for O&D passengers IF you know your departure gate in advance, being in Terminal E on the same side of the airfield as the majority of the AA hub is certainly not conducive to efficient operations. And if you end up landing on 17L, you could be in for a 15-20 minute taxi in to your gate.
In 1968, before Southwest began flying (at the time, they were grounded by challenges in court brought by some of the airlines already at DAL), the DFW Airport Board obtained agreements from the 8 CAB-certificated carriers serving DAL at the time that they would move all operations to the new D/FW Regional Airport at such time that it opened. Southwest began flying from DAL in 1971, three years before DFW opened, and they never signed any agreements to move their operations to DFW. And, in fact, before DFW opened, Southwest notified the City of Dallas and the DFW Airport Board that they would not be moving their flights to DFW, as they had never signed any agreement to do so.
There were several lawsuits attempting to compel SWA to move its flights from DAL to DFW; Southwest won all of them. The City of Dallas attempted to force Southwest to move by passing an ordinance imposing a fine for each commercial flight at DAL; this was repudiated by the federal courts. The City of Dallas was unable to close Love Field to Southwest given that they had accepted federal money for improvements to the airport.
The real impetus behind the passage of the Wright Amendment in 1979, eight years after Southwest began operations at DAL, was the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. With domestic routes deregulated, Southwest (or any other carrier that had not been party to the agreements signed in 1968) would be able to fly from DAL to any point in the U.S. So, in essence, the rules were changed at DAL well after Southwest began service there.
In any case, I'm sure a big part of why Southwest has no interest in serving DFW is the airport's multibillon dollar Capital Development Program which largely serves only the interests of AA. The nearly $2 billion spent on the train ($850M) and International Terminal D ($1080M) offers little benefit to airlines which don't operate out of multiple terminals and don't offer international service from DFW. And yet, all the airlines at DFW will end up paying for those costly improvements -- to the tune of several dollars per passenger just in debt service. I'm sure that's a good part of why Delta pulled the plug on its DFW hub -- they couldn't make the numbers work if they had to shell out an additional $30-50 million per year to the airport. And what I really don't get is why it cost DFW $400 million more than IAH to build an international terminal with one more gate and less capacity to process international passengers (IAH's Terminal E & IAB cost $665 million together).
While I agree that DFW's terminals are well-suited for O&D passengers IF you know your departure gate in advance, being in Terminal E on the same side of the airfield as the majority of the AA hub is certainly not conducive to efficient operations. And if you end up landing on 17L, you could be in for a 15-20 minute taxi in to your gate.
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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A little mixed up here JS. First, because of the efforts of Braniff and Texas International to keep SWA from flying, they weren't around when the other airlines signed the agreement to move to DFW. And when they did fly, they argued that they were not subject to regulation by the CAB as they were an intrastate carrier and not subject to it. I doubt that a little airline with fewer than 10 aircraft would have enough political sway to convince Dallas City fathers to keep DAL open. There were too many of those city fathers who enjoyed jetting off on their corporate jets out of that airport - they weren't going to close it.
Actually, the Kennedy Cannon Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 opened the window for interstate flights, as it eliminated the CAB. Thus, Southwest chose to start service under the newly deregulated industry. Congress only got involved in 1979 because Jim Wright wanted to "clarify" the new rules that he wanted for the Dallas Airport., but not for any other metropolitan airport in the country. Apparently, this 5 year old airport that was serving as a new "hub" for American, Braniff, Texas International, and to a lesser extent at that time Delta Airlines was at risk of becoming a ghost town unless vital protectionist legislation was passed by the Congress
Had the competition not been so fearful of a three jet airline and let them start flying when they originally planned, Southwest most likely would have been "forced" to move to DFW as well.
And AA would still have a 67 or so gate mega hub just 11 miles up the road...your point is?
Why would they be sorry? Would DFW close and all that traffic start demanding those 32 gates?
To be clear, DFW's terminals are well suited for O&D as air travel existed in the early 70s. At that time, it was unheard of for an airline to have more than a dozen gates (except perhaps at JFK?). The typical behavior of airports was at most a handful of gates for an airline, with the dominant player(s) getting a couple handfuls.sfb said:
For that pattern of air travel, DFW was pretty much ideally designed. I'm not a big fan of the baggage claim on the ticketing level, given the double-deck roadway at the terminal; beyond that, the design was perfect for the time.
Flash forward to today, where megahubs have in excess of a hundred gates for a single airline...DFW is really poorly designed for this purpose, whether the hundred gates are used for O&D or connections.
mweiss said:
Actually, both DL and EA had about two dozen gates at ATL's old terminal back in the early 70's -- they both operated fairly significant connecting hubs there at the time. And even at DAL, AA and BN both had 15 or so gates each, while DL had close to a dozen. It's amazing how well the design of the new ATL terminal as a connecting hub has held up with time, given that the design dates from before deregulation.
