Words Of Wisdom

[Oneflyer]

we can become an LCC

No AA can not. As much as employees like Local 12 say they want AA to be a low cost carrier, their actions prove that they are really unwilling to do what it takes.

Let me relay a story about our friendly TWU union. Recently AA in PHL has been experiencing a surge in mail volumes, primarily because of some great work by both management and union FSCs in Cargo. The post office actually gives us the mail to send to LA instead of putting in on USair's direct flights, because AA can actually get it there. The volume is so high that cargo has run out of man power, even with OT, to accomodate all the mail the post office wants to give us. Now since this a relatively new phenomeon and largely seasonal mail volume, cargo ops is unwilling to immediately increase headcount, just to see if the trend continues. So the TWU was asked if ramp FSCs could be offered OT to help with the mail.

The TWU flately refused to consider that option, they would rather watch AA turn away revenue than help out. Now tell me how we're going to be like Southwest airlines if two different parts of the SAME WORK GROUP can't even work together? The unions are so hell bent on getting their jobs back, meaning more union dues, they're unwilling to even offer OT to their own members! The good of the company be damned.

I wonder if SW would have found a solution?

 

[FA Mikey]

so with all these ameneties that AA offers and southwest DOES'NT how do we compete when the customer says we just want the cheapest fare? we can become an LCC and fight fire with fire, or we can continue to be all things to all people but the cost must be brought down to remain viable, so where will these cost reductions be obtained? look at USAIR and whats happening folks, you can't get blood out of a turnip!

[post="195148"][/post]​

Because people do want more than what SWA will give. People do want service, amenities, a FF program. They Connie to buy in to and use things like AAirpass, and Admirals clubs. They want assigned seats and a f/c cabin to be seen in. Problem is they want it for the fare they believe SWA would offer it to them.

Waste, and poor use of facilities, man power and a/c are some of the ways we continue to waste much needed resource's.

 

[pooksmom]

Because people do want more than what SWA will give. People do want service, amenities, a FF program. They Connie to buy in to and use things like AAirpass, and Admirals clubs. They want assigned seats and a f/c cabin to be seen in. Problem is they want it for the fare they believe SWA would offer it to them.

Waste, and poor use of facilities, man power and a/c are some of the ways we continue to waste much needed resource's.

[post="195314"][/post]​

Having a couple of bankruptcys under our belts, reading this is like deja vu all over again!
Yes the Pax want a fine meal service, amenities, roomy seats - all that you list and even more. We ALL do. It's human nature. But the fact is, most are not willing to pay a higher fare for it. Not anymore. Ask any travel agent what a pax asks for first... the cheapest fare. And sadly, it took us a VERY long time to "get it."

 

[Boomer]

Oneflyer,

I beleive your story about PHL is a total fabrication.

Anyone with any experience dealing with TWU contracts KNOWS that there is ample language CONTRACTUALLY justifying the ability of the company to manage their business and the legal requirement that the TWU enforce the contract.

Ask the Mechanics at JFK about going to Court over an alleged job action and how quickly the company was able to obtain an Injunction, even though the Company was later shown to have fabricated the entire affair and the Injunction later lifted.

 

[LaBradford22]

I would like to see the following comparison with factual data.

Number of AA Pilots per Aircraft vs SWA Pilots per Aircraft

Number of AA F/A per Aircraft vs SWA F/A per Aircraft

Number of AA Mechanics per Aircraft vs SWA Mechanics per Aircraft

Number of AA Baggage/Ground per Aircraft vs SWA Baggage/Ground per Aircraft

Number of AA MANAGEMENT/Non-Union per Aircraft vs SWA MANAGEMENT/Non-Union per Aircraft
I for one believe a very important revelation would appear when looking at this comparison.

[post="194805"][/post]​

Keep in mind also that SWA outsources all (yes, ALL) of its heavy maintenance.

How quickly would AA mechanics be signing AMFA cards if TWU allowed management to do this?

 

[goingboeing]

Keep in mind also that SWA outsources all (yes, ALL) of its heavy maintenance.

How quickly would AA mechanics be signing AMFA cards if TWU allowed management to do this?

[post="195397"][/post]​

SWA outsources its Heavy "D" checks and does all other checks in-house which includes B & C checks as well as line maintenance.[LUV website}

As a 19 year veteran of AA I would not care if AA outsourced the Heavy checks if it means returning to profitabilty. AA does not need to be an employment agency if it means massive losses of money.
I don't care what union represents the mechanics because the majority of AA's problems are not Union related.
AA's competetion flying in chapter 11 protection is the biggest problem facing AA ahead of fuel prices.

 

[Oneflyer]

I beleive your story about PHL is a total fabrication.

I don't really care whether you believe me or not. I don't believe a damn word that comes from someone in a union, so I guess I shouldn't expect some union guy to believe me. Distrust is part of the problem, and one of the reasons AA could never work like southwest.

 

[Bagbelt]

Southwest guys are in the same union. Also, if it was that big a deal the co. would just do it and deal with the grievance later. You could'nt work here or you would know that. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a liar, union or not.

 

[Oneflyer]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a liar

I didn't accuse anyone of being a liar. Its amazing that if something doesn't fit into your preconceived idea of the way the company does business you don't believe its possible. It once again proves my point that change is impossible at AA because the union membership wouldn't accept the changes they themselves suggest.

 

[Bagbelt]

it's not that I don't think we could do things different, why did we get out of flying freighters? It's just in my experience that there is plenty of management who couldn't run a lemonade stand without calling Dallas every time a decision needs to be made. It works both ways. When I started here you had managers who didn't care if they were liked or not. This isn't all management currently, but there are far too many.

 

[Boomer]

The PHL story just doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, coupled with your statement about not believing anything from a Union member, it's increasingly obvious that the story is simple Union Bashing based on stories that are either wholly fabricated or water cooler myths.

Under the TWU Ramp and Maintenance contracts, the company expressly retains the right to manage the affairs of the business.

Article 28-b: Statement of Management Rights
The Union recognizes that the Company will have sole jurisdiction of the management and operation of its business, the direction of its working force, the right to maintain discipline and efficiency in its hangars, stations, shops, or other places of employment, and the right of the company to hire, discipline and discharge employees for just cause, subject to the provisions of this agreement...

Article 31: Do it, then Grieve it
An employee who beleives that he has been unjustly dealt with, or that any provision of this agreement has not been properly applied or interpreted...

Article 33: No Strike, No Lockout
...Neither the Union or Employees will engage in a strike, sitdown, walkout,...

Article 21: Change of Employee Shifts With 7 Days Notice
...Except in an emergency, an employee will be given at least seven days notice of all shift changes...

Article 4: Cross Utilization Guidlines

Article 6: Double Time Eliminated, Proffer of OT
...overtime will be proffered within the appropriate classifications and work units prior to offering it to other classifications under cross utilization.

This is all TWU language in current contracts. The company can change shifts and bids, by seniority, with seven days notice (or sooner, so long as the affected employee is paid ot for the first day only). The company can extend part time after proffering ot to full time. The company can white-slip.

If all the above is not working: just get on the phone and call Little at he TWU-ATD, he'll change the contract to whatever the company wants.

The simple fact is that the current contracts are worded in a way AA can do pretty much anything they need to. The problem from where many of us sit is that not enough is being done quickly enough and we are suspicious that the reason behind the inaction is round two of concessions and we all know where the TWU stands on concessions.

 

[Oneflyer]

why did we get out of flying freighters?

Because we can't make any money doing it. Only on a select few routes does AA fill up the belly of the plane consistantly at the rates we want to charge. Flying freighters just drives the price down. Cargo looks into flying freighters about once a year and it just doesn't work, the conversion costs are high and adding freighters would drive down yields. AA would end up flying more cargo for less revenue.

 

[Oneflyer]

The PHL story just doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, coupled with your statement about not believing anything from a Union member, it's increasingly obvious that the story is simple Union Bashing based on stories that are either wholly fabricated or water cooler myths.

1. What do I have to gain by lying? none.

2. Why use PHL, mail, and OT? I must be pretty creative.

3. With all of your contract knowledge you don't seem to understand how the shift bid works. Cargo and the ramp work on different bids. Like I said before the Cargo ops wasn't allowing PHL to increase headcount, doing a shiftbid and bringing more people over from the ramp, adds headcount. In fact, ramp workers can't work in Cargo without taking certain DG classes first, that is unless they only work with the mail. So the cargo manager can't just grab a random ramp worker and tell them to get to work.

The fact is, that you want to think I'm lying, therefore you come up with reasoning that just your desire.

 

[Nightwatch]

Keep in mind also that SWA outsources all (yes, ALL) of its heavy maintenance.

How quickly would AA mechanics be signing AMFA cards if TWU allowed management to do this?

[post="195397"][/post]​

You mean total outsourcing of heavy checks, like Alaskan Air? Did they run to sign TWU cards?

 

[Drippy Quill]

Keep in mind that our industry is changing in the way it does business. I do not see it being an AMFA or TWU issue. Ours is one industry that refuses to pass the operating cost onto the consumer, until this is remedied...HANG ON. We have become so "cut throat" that no one airline is willing to lead the others into becoming profitable again.

In the MCI area, it costs more to hail a taxi and ride to south KC than to hop on a plane and fly to ORD...go figure.