WN's Philly Flights Barely 50% LF

[usairways85]

Well one thing that the PHL airport authority probably sees glaring out at them is that 3 more gates for WN may equal a dozen new flts to a handful of new destinations. On the other hand, US wants 3 gates to likely operate 3 seasonal european flts.

I am not saying that this makes sense, but i just think that this is what they see. If US plans to serve more european destinations year round then i can see the airport authority possibly siding with them.

 

[zethya]

....I can assure you that when the international terminal was built, WN did not have anything to do with the funding (they weren't even serving PHL at that point I believe). I can, however, assure you that when it was built that US did have a part in the funding....

The actual plan is for Southwest to take over 4 gates in Terminal "E" from Delta. There was (is) only one terminal at PHL with 4 available gates (A-East) and that is due to BA, LH and others recently moving to A-West - where they should have been all along. US was instrumental in the design and significant funding support for A-West. They had nothing to do with the much earlier construction of A-East. I am personally appalled they would but DL into A-East myself - a carrier which barely serves the region, but what choice do they really have? The airport authority has been very cautious since just before the US-HP merger (and the DL hostile takeover attempt) and wants to avoid getting itself too imbedded into the single carrier hub situation without backup (WN). Essentially, the city doesn't want itself to be become another PIT with 37% of it's (PHL's) flights disappearing - even though there is a vast difference in the domestic and international O&D pool. Further, PHL was between a rock and a hard spot in that they enticed WN to start service in a major new airport (during the US BK process) and committed at that time to provide for additional growth beyond the original gate allocation. Also, US's highly publicized deteriorating service reputation, including baggage fiascos and labor problems, just doesn't exude a stable business model. I don't know if many are aware, but PHL is in the process of starting a $50M upgrade to A-East to make it more esthetically compatible with A-West. I am of the opinion that A-East should be principally International and even AA should be moved, except for their Caribbean services, elsewhere. I'd also speculate that PHL, or the city (as of now) hasn't taken Parker's 2008 (now 2007) PHL-China route as a serious endeavor, especially since there are no aircraft proposed to fly the route.

 

[az_wild727]

Also...

Wouldn't International Tourism bring in more $ for the city?

I can't understand why the city isn't actually considering whether to give WN or US more gates???

 

[ClueByFour]

I can't understand why the city isn't actually considering whether to give WN or US more gates???

One is a slam dunk. One has rescinded leases, screwed vendors and local companies in bankruptcy twice.

It's a no-brainer for the city, really.

 

[NAPAUS]

1. WN has always had lower LF's than the majors.

2. They (like everyone else) don't break out profitability on a market by market basis in public data. So, you did not read that anywhere because it's not public.

3. They have made money for 30+ years.

4. More people want to go to MDW and FLL on a daily basis than want to go to Asia. If US wants gates, bring cash and build them.

😛 :down: :down: :down: AHH DId someone finally reveal the turth about WN.....Think we struck a nerve!!

 

[ClueByFour]

😛 :down: :down: :down: AHH DId someone finally reveal the turth about WN.....Think we struck a nerve!!

Everyone thinks they will kill WN every 5 years or so.

30+ years later, and they are still waiting.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

The actual plan is for Southwest to take over 4 gates in Terminal "E" from Delta. There was (is) only one terminal at PHL with 4 available gates (A-East) and that is due to BA, LH and others recently moving to A-West - where they should have been all along. US was instrumental in the design and significant funding support for A-West. They had nothing to do with the much earlier construction of A-East. I am personally appalled they would but DL into A-East myself - a carrier which barely serves the region, but what choice do they really have? The airport authority has been very cautious since just before the US-HP merger (and the DL hostile takeover attempt) and wants to avoid getting itself too imbedded into the single carrier hub situation without backup (WN). Essentially, the city doesn't want itself to be become another PIT with 37% of it's (PHL's) flights disappearing - even though there is a vast difference in the domestic and international O&D pool. Further, PHL was between a rock and a hard spot in that they enticed WN to start service in a major new airport (during the US BK process) and committed at that time to provide for additional growth beyond the original gate allocation. Also, US's highly publicized deteriorating service reputation, including baggage fiascos and labor problems, just doesn't exude a stable business model. I don't know if many are aware, but PHL is in the process of starting a $50M upgrade to A-East to make it more esthetically compatible with A-West. I am of the opinion that A-East should be principally International and even AA should be moved, except for their Caribbean services, elsewhere. I'd also speculate that PHL, or the city (as of now) hasn't taken Parker's 2008 (now 2007) PHL-China route as a serious endeavor, especially since there are no aircraft proposed to fly the route.

Then Air France can go over to A East. That will free 1 A-west gate

 

[nycbusdriver]

The easy answer is to bring the mobile lounges back into service. For the Delta flights, that is.

 

[usairways85]

i really don't see why mobile lounges are that big of a deal. I had to do it twice in Europe recently, in fact it is a common occurance there. I don't think a short bus ride would drive people to connect when they can fly nonstop.

 

[FutureUScapt]

The easy answer is to bring the mobile lounges back into service. For the Delta flights, that is.

Oh I'm sure DL will be more than happy to accept that proposal!


I know PHL is in the progress of upgrading Terminal E, which I believe calls for adding a hammerhead at the end of the concourse, among other things. I don't see why WN can't just wait another year or so and then they'll have another 3-4 gates for them to use?

Although ideally, PHL would take that opportunity to move AA, YX, F9 over to E since none have any reason to stay on A-East (the only AA Caribbean destination is SJU). That would allow both A-west and A-east to be used entirely for international ops (US, LH, BA, AF, JM, U5) and some overflow domestic traffic by US at peak times if necessary.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Oh I'm sure DL will be more than happy to accept that proposal!
I know PHL is in the progress of upgrading Terminal E, which I believe calls for adding a hammerhead at the end of the concourse, among other things. I don't see why WN can't just wait another year or so and then they'll have another 3-4 gates for them to use?

Although ideally, PHL would take that opportunity to move AA, YX, F9 over to E since none have any reason to stay on A-East (the only AA Caribbean destination is SJU). That would allow both A-west and A-east to be used entirely for international ops (US, LH, BA, AF, JM, U5) and some overflow domestic traffic by US at peak times if necessary.

SJU doesn't need an international gate. That is a domestic flight. But AA came from E to A when it 1st opened. WN is using the old TW gates in E. But they will still have NW at E. DL only needs 3 gates.

 

[phllax]

Remember, not all gates in A East are FIS capable. A1, A2, A3, A5, A7 are all domestic gates only. A14 is restricted to narrow body use only.

Also, D5 is used for UAX to IAD and 1 UA RON aircraft only and there is no jetway at D10 right now.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Remember, not all gates in A East are FIS capable. A1, A2, A3, A5, A7 are all domestic gates only. A14 is restricted to narrow body use only.

Also, D5 is used for UAX to IAD and 1 UA RON aircraft only and there is no jetway at D10 right now.

A-14 is considered A-West. But that is irrelivant, who does Air France Ground in PHL? If it's DL then moving them there would be ideal, also DL will probably need a gate to handle a 767, they occasionally schedule them in. D5 is also used for AC I believe. Isn't D-10 CO's Express Gate? If and when DL moves, its gonna be a mess.

 

[ngneer]

There's something in this article that doesn't add up:

"The airline continues to add aircraft at a rate of over 35 each year, even though 61 of the 73 markets added since early 2003 are consistent money-losers, the brokerage said."

But at the Southwest website:

"Southwest flies to 63 cities in 32 states."

Clearly, WN is in less than 73 markets and hasn't added 61 markets since 2003. Perhaps they mean 61 of the 73 routes? Whatever they mean it's sloppy reporting.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

There's something in this article that doesn't add up:

"The airline continues to add aircraft at a rate of over 35 each year, even though 61 of the 73 markets added since early 2003 are consistent money-losers, the brokerage said."

But at the Southwest website:

"Southwest flies to 63 cities in 32 states."

Clearly, WN is in less than 73 markets and hasn't added 61 markets since 2003. Perhaps they mean 61 of the 73 routes? Whatever they mean it's sloppy reporting.

A market is a route! PHL-RDU, BWI-MCI, DAL-MSY, PHL-BDL stuff like that. And whatever they say in the article, I take with a grain of salt. One route that WN didn't do well on that I am aware of, was the PHL-BDL. They pulled that route in February.