WN Mechanics seek mediation

[swamt]

Any idea on how the 160 million is going to be divy up? Hours, years, etc...

Pretty sure the exact same way it was last time per the formula the economist worked up which will include compounding, a little interest, and an amount agreed to for a % for each year in the past. But, in my opinion it also looks like the co. might have padded it a bit more in order to get that IO approved as they were racking their brains on what to do with all the downed aircraft that ran out of green time or will lose green time since we lost those 8 lines to UAL. They basically bought and paid for the IO. The IO will more than make up for the cost of this contract, otherwise the company would have never agreed to it overnight from Fri night to Sat morning when the co. called the union back to talk some more and then the AIP was announced. Pretty sure Gary was briefed and he had to give the head nod back to Kinder to get it done.
Looks like Kinder is going to end up being the Hero and not the Zero. Wow! He's been here 30-45 days and HE gets it's done...

 

[swamt]

Yes on your answer, but the big improvements I liked was we got the international downlines in our actual contract language. All our no layoff protections stay on the outsourcing. So win win. Most the guys so far happy in MDW, BWI, ATL, PHX. So I think we will be ok. Let me know about DAL.

Amen brother. Kudos on the ID getting in the contract. Had to have the no layoff language or the IO would not fly. So glad to see the C-checks all staying.
So that crazy maint. program Scott Collins was trying to force down our throats was never really actually needed after all huh? Not a mention of any kind of new maint lines taking place of C-checks and such. What a waste of freakin time and money, and look how much all that BS costed the company on dragging these nego's out on a theory of some new way to run maint. that never even saw the day of light. Mo gosh, they spent freakin years on that crap didn't they???
I will pass along Dallas info after our meeting. I feel a little better after your updates about some new language and protections we were all hoping were in there.

 

[I’ll have another]

I

Pretty sure the exact same way it was last time per the formula the economist worked up which will include compounding, a little interest, and an amount agreed to for a % for each year in the past. But, in my opinion it also looks like the co. might have padded it a bit more in order to get that IO approved as they were racking their brains on what to do with all the downed aircraft that ran out of green time or will lose green time since we lost those 8 lines to UAL. They basically bought and paid for the IO. The IO will more than make up for the cost of this contract, otherwise the company would have never agreed to it overnight from Fri night to Sat morning when the co. called the union back to talk some more and then the AIP was announced. Pretty sure Gary was briefed and he had to give the head nod back to Kinder to get it done.
Looks like Kinder is going to end up being the Hero and not the Zero. Wow! He's been here 30-45 days and HE gets it's done...

I must admit it was a impressive showing by kk to get these results in such a short time after all these years. Maybe he should be gk’s replacement then we will have another herb if that is ever possible. What I don’t like is the lawsuits were not dropped.

 

[swamt]

I

I must admit it was a impressive showing by kk to get these results in such a short time after all these years. Maybe he should be gk’s replacement then we will have another herb if that is ever possible. What I don’t like is the lawsuits were not dropped.

I agree, but I have seen suits dropped all the way up to entering the court rooms, so we will see. I too thought they would have been dropped, but sort ok with going forward with them as they are all legit write ups and they are continuing even today as far as I know. Dallas was taken off the SOE by Kinder only to show good faith and that he was legit going into nego's, Dal's numbers were just as big that very same day and even larger with the Max's being grounded.

 

[B737 driver]

So the 8 lines are 8 that were being done in US where we got out bidded by UAL? So no increase in % of total outsource just a change of who is doing them? US vs IO? If it's a no increase in the % of outsourcing and just a change in who performs them, I would think this might pass the membership. I am not a fan of IO, would rather the Americans get the jobs first. I also haven't seen any language as of yet, but with Locals 32 and 4 endorsing, I would guess a passing vote coming from the membership IMO. As I have not heard of Loc. 11 leaning either way, I would also assume we would have heard by now if they were not endorsing, so I too expect to hear them endorsing as well.
So basically retro is 3% per year with a bonus 2% when all said and done by Aug 2019, year 7. I called it a bonus 2%, but in reality I still think that 2% was for the missing 2% we received in 2012 when we only got the 1% on the final year of that contract.
Thx for the update, I will do the same after our meetings.
I actually see something ahead, I believe it's a light, maybe the light at the end of the tunnel...

Yes on your answer, but the big improvements I liked was we got the international downlines in our actual contract language. All our no layoff protections stay on the outsourcing. So win win. Most the guys so far happy in MDW, BWI, ATL, PHX. So I think we will be ok. Let me know about DA

Any idea on how the 160 million is going to be divy up? Hours, years, etc...

Have another same as last year, by hours worked overtime, etc. The language of LOA3 stays the same, so just more back pay. I am talking about the Formula from last year T/A.

 

[B737 driver]

I

I must admit it was a impressive showing by kk to get these results in such a short time after all these years. Maybe he should be gk’s replacement then we will have another herb if that is ever possible. What I don’t like is the lawsuits were not dropped.

AMFA wasn't worried about it, at Local 4 meeting today.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok Swampy went to the meeting in Chicago , Dan we got the international downlines back in our contract. The 8 lines, in amended LOA 1 5 the company keeps, 3 are subject to be negotiated back in. The 2.75 stays that's just a floor, We keep our trades and 24 hours paid rest. With the Aug raise its 23% for 2019 on based raises. So A day shift topped out Mechanic all in would be at $54'
Me as a lead with my Shift differential would be all in April 1 st , I would be at $56. They are getting with the company to finalize all the language and retro. They took a poll how guys want the money distribution., 50/50 split all at once, or split up. Local 4 recommends this agreement. They hope to have everything voted done, by the end of May. The lawsuits stay. Local 4 is ok we have good reserves. To be in violation of the RLA we would have to have an injunction, and we would have to violate it. We are also not using True ballot anymore. Well that's about it. Oh all our C check lines we have now stay. Oh and my figures a day shift guy almost $54, it was $53.80, & Me as a lead all in $55.90.

driver I’m curious? Did you gain anything extra that you didn’t already have in your Contract today?

You were offered a monetary extension 7 years ago correct me if I’m wrong?

And what does it mean “subject to negotiating” back in? You can negotiate for anything you want but that doesn’t mean the Company is going to care or give it to you anyway.

Again it’s just sounding to me as if if you got raises today that you could have gotten years ago?

 

[B737 driver]

driver I’m curious? Did you gain anything extra that you didn’t already have in your Contract today?

You were offered a monetary extension 7 years ago correct me if I’m wrong?

And what does it mean “subject to negotiating” back in? You can negotiate for anything you want but that doesn’t mean the Company is going to care or give it to you anyway.

Again it’s just sounding to me as if if you got raises today that you could have gotten years ago?

The extensions 7 years ago, I believe Swampy correct me if I was wrong was an average of 2.5 percent, and like a $3000 signing bonus. We wanted to change some things in section 6, then SWA wanted to gut scope, so here we are. The 8 lines were done by Vendors in the United States. By I.O. 5 lines do not sunset, 3 lines do, and can be negotiated to come back to us.

 

[WeAAsles]

The extensions 7 years ago, I believe Swampy correct me if I was wrong was an average of 2.5 percent, and like a $3000 signing bonus. We wanted to change some things in section 6, then SWA wanted to gut scope, so here we are. The 8 lines were done by Vendors in the United States. By I.O. 5 lines do not sunset, 3 lines do, and can be negotiated to come back to us.

swamt is on my ignore list but if I’m correct all in it looks like you did improve on a 2.5% increase as it seems like your numbers would be around 3% per year looking back.

So you also agreed to allow USA based shops work to be outsourced to International MRO’s to gain more cash?

“Can be negotiated” means you will never get that work back. It’s designed merely to placate. The only way you would gain that work back is if it was specifically stated that work comes back to you at the end of the agreement on a particular predetermined date. Say March 30, 2024 or something like that.

 

[B737 driver]

swamt is on my ignore list but if I’m correct all in it looks like you did improve on a 2.5% increase as it seems like your numbers would be around 3% per year looking back.

So you also agreed to allow USA based shops work to be outsourced to International MRO’s to gain more cash?

“Can be negotiated” means you will never get that work back. It’s designed merely to placate. The only way you would gain that work back is if it was specifically stated that work comes back to you at the end of the agreement on a particular predetermined date. Say March 30, 2024 or something like that.

This was work that was already contracted out, so it zeros out.

 

[WeAAsles]

This was work that was already contracted out, so it zeros out.

I get that. What I’m trying to figure out is if you “gained” anything contractually besides money?

Is your contract language essentially status quo?

 

[B737 driver]

I get that. What I’m trying to figure out is if you “gained” anything contractually besides money?

Is your contract language essentially status quo?

We gained some station closer protections, and relocations money, more money.

 

[WeAAsles]

We gained some station closer protections, and relocations money, more money.

Ok well Station closing protections is absolutely a gain and a relocation allowance I can get on board with having been displaced twice in my career.

Sorry you didn’t gain more work frankly but at least you didn’t lose any so that’s something.

Good luck with your vote this time. Sounds to me as if you guys are happy with the deal and ready to move on.

 

[B737 driver]

Ok well Station closing protections is absolutely a gain and a relocation allowance I can get on board with having been displaced twice in my career.

Sorry you didn’t gain more work frankly but at least you didn’t lose any so that’s something.

Good luck with your vote this time. Sounds to me as if you guys are happy with the deal and ready to move on.

So true.

 

[swamt]

The extensions 7 years ago, I believe Swampy correct me if I was wrong was an average of 2.5 percent, and like a $3000 signing bonus. We wanted to change some things in section 6, then SWA wanted to gut scope, so here we are. The 8 lines were done by Vendors in the United States. By I.O. 5 lines do not sunset, 3 lines do, and can be negotiated to come back to us.

Hard to say for sure, but when ever we did look at the "average" in past offers they did in fact lack what the membership was willing to vote for. Way back in 2012 the union offered the co an extension with the same basic 3% raises each year and no retro as it was an early opener. Co. came back with "no" we can't just do an extension because we need these "must haves" and listed about 5-7 of them. The union asked why the changes and the co's responses were that they just needed them to pay for the raises, a cost neutral contract if you will. After many meetings the co finally did make some sort of an offer with same "must haves" and the money was an average as you stated somewhere around 2.5% or less per year.
You are correct about the 3,000.00 signing bonus from the first offer.
AMFA told the co. that with the changes they were asking for is NOT an actual extension, and if they wanted changes then so did we, and Bam, sec 6 nego's became reality once again.
I actually think the first verbal offer was more like 2.2 or 2.3%. And let us all remember that the actual very first offer was no raises by yearly and only bonuses by meeting certain levels of profitability and on time and efficiently and etc...
BTW they revisited the ole 2.124% raise offer again about 2 offers ago. Amazing huh?