WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

Here’s a comment to get you started on that intelligent conversation.

Every contract has a “management rights” clause. Usually that language states “The Company reserves the right”

If the contract doesn’t contain specific language stating that’s the union represented covered work, without the management rights clause than management has the right to do as they please in regard to the issue.

Yes I know that, hopefully this lawsuit doesn't take forever, probably a plan to try to get the company to move.

 

[B737 driver]

Yes I know that, hopefully this lawsuit doesn't take forever, probably a plan to try to get the company to move.

Read some more language deeper, looks like AMFA could be correct, see where this goes.

 

[B737 driver]

Exactly. There doesn't have to be ETOP's language directly for the company to violate the contract. There is some other language that does cover it in the book. And yes, the co. did in fact ask for relief on this very exact issue. Why would they be asking for relief if they were not already restricted from doing so per the contract? I am glad the union is being pro active in the filings and grievances rather than waiting after the fact. And yes also to the pilots help in referencing information and support about this issue. It will help greatly having their full support with us on this issue.
I also like that AMFA National put out this memo. It is in direct relation to the co's memo they put out that they were not violating anything within our contract when they outsource the maint in Hawaii with current language. Also hopes this will help us at the table during nego's.
Per the Tax Reform numbers just released, Southwest corp. taxes will go from 35% down to 20%. That will be a HUGE increase in SWA's bottom line and will help with paying for our new contract as they can now afford an increase in our contract. No longer is the "cost neutral" contract required as the co. has been chanting.

Swamt yeah your right did some more reading, probably onto something. I apologize for being such a pain. We are all on the same team, doesn't mean I am still not frustrated. But I realized bitching doesn't accomplish bringing you to a contract. I was a good union steward.

 

[swamt]

Even without legislative tax relief I never really understood the notion that a company making record profits, with similar future earning projections, would even suggest the necessity of a cost neutral contract. Most are requested in negotiations when a company sees current and future earnings depressed. I've not seen significant quarterly profit loses even with our two major unions settling contracts with large pay increases. Loses from disasters on the other hand, while unpredictable, are a fact of life.

I know, I was being sarcastic a little. Tax reform will not be in effect until probably 2020.
Any concessions anywhere in our contract I will be a NO vote. And that especially goes from full retro and outsourcing, to medical and positions (jobs).

 

[swamt]

AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Road Show Schedule

Our RS's are coming up this next week for our Chicago, Baltimore, and Atlanta stations. Make every attempt to attend and get all your questions answered. Get the real reasons behind the company's actions not their words. At this point you guys will get the opportunity to ask about the recent filing to stop the company from violating our contract in Hawaii announcements. Look forward to some updates after your RS. I wonder how the company's RS are going? Has anyone heard anymore about the company's RS's? And, does anyone know when the co. will put on the Dallas RS? Oh wait, I don't think they are setting one up for Dallas, hmmm wonder why that is? Probably because they know that Dallas is the most affected station for the scope changes and outsourcing and they will get hit hard in Dallas.

 

[B737 driver]

AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Road Show Schedule

Our RS's are coming up this next week for our Chicago, Baltimore, and Atlanta stations. Make every attempt to attend and get all your questions answered. Get the real reasons behind the company's actions not their words. At this point you guys will get the opportunity to ask about the recent filing to stop the company from violating our contract in Hawaii announcements. Look forward to some updates after your RS. I wonder how the company's RS are going? Has anyone heard anymore about the company's RS's? And, does anyone know when the co. will put on the Dallas RS? Oh wait, I don't think they are setting one up for Dallas, hmmm wonder why that is? Probably because they know that Dallas is the most affected station for the scope changes and outsourcing and they will get hit hard in Dallas.

I haven't heard anything back from the company road shows, someone told me the union was invited to the company road shows, and said no, has anyone else heard that?

 

[Not herbs SWA]

I've been watching this thread for a while. It's time to weigh but with that said, I'm not getting into all that back and forth flaming, arguing, name calling, and insulting nonsense that these discussions always seem to decay into. It always ends up looking like an online bar fight and I'm not going there.

But.......I'm going to throw this out there. And I say this as a one time staunch AMFA supporter. I met the late O.V. Dell Femine. I shook hands with the man. He was small in stature but he was fiery and passionate about the union he envisioned. In spite of my respect for the late Mr. Femine, I think AMFA's time is up. Dell Femine had a noble idea, to organize all airline industry mechanics under one union. But it just never came to pass. In a nutshell, AMFA is simply ineffective. AMFA is too small and too few in number and that translates to being too weak financially to go head to head against Southwest and its ever increasing hostility toward our work group.

It's not anyone's fault. AMFA is just a victim of the times. For a short period of time, it looked like AMFA might became a very powerful force in this industry, representing the mechanics here at Southwest, Northwest, United, and Alaska, as well as some of the commuters. And there were card drives at American and yes, even at Delta. But we all know what transpired after the 9-11 attacks. The entire industry went into chaos. High fuel prices; bankruptcies; mergers; it was insanity. Success often results from being in the right place at the right time. For AMFA, it was bad luck and bad timing. And more often than not, when timing and fortune are against you, you never recover.

I know this is going to inflame some people but all I say is.....at least give what I'm going to propose some thought. It is time to seriously consider replacing AMFA. And that's not easy to admit. I was a staunch supporter. I handed out cards. But here it is: I propose that we consider beginning a card drive to force a representation election for the United Aerospace Workers, the aerospace arm of the United Auto Workers Union.

The UAW is an industrial union, I get it. But they do have an aerospace division that does have experience representing aerospace industry workers. Are they perfect? No. Show me a union that is, or ever was at any time. But we certainly do not ever want the Teamsters on the property ever again. And you don't want the IAM within a hundred miles of the property.

Here is a link to some of the aerospace companies whose workers are represented by the United Aerospace Workers:

https://www.unionfacts.com/contracts/United_Auto_Workers/Aerospace

At Bell Helicopter alone they represent more workers than those represented by AMFA at Southwest and Alaska combined. Yes, many of the Bell and Lockheed and Honeywell workers are machinists and assemblers and are not A&P mechanics. I get that too. But when you combine the total number of all UAW members, and I'm including aerospace, auto, and agricultural industry workers, it adds up to a large and financially strong organization. Have they had setbacks? Yes. What union hasn't?

So what about 2008/2009 when the UAW was forced to renegotiate their contracts at the Big Three at the height of the Great Recession? GM and Chrysler did in fact go into chapter 11. The UAW made concessions. No one can deny that. The alternative was to have the bankruptcy judge abrogate all contracts. Let there be no doubt, the UAW would have been disbanded if they had put their fate in the hands of the bankruptcy judge. But again, they had the numbers and were able to survive that very difficult time in our history. Like I said, they're not perfect. No one ever wants to make concessions. But the entire world was on the cusp of a 1930s style Great Depression. Given the dire economy and what they were up against, I think the UAW did as good a job as they could.

AMFA on the other hand, is too small and will never have the strength to adequately represent the mechanics in the airline industry. And AMFA is not going to rise from the ashes. No one is clamoring for AMFA to represent them anymore. There are no ongoing card drives or rumors of card drives.

It pains me to admit it, but the AMFA experiment is done. It's like having to put down an old sick dog that's been a faithful family pet for many years. Sometimes you have to admit when it's over.

Here's a link to the UAW's organizing site. Like I said, at least give it some thought. Maybe something comes of it, maybe not. Do with this what you will.

https://uaw.org/organize/contact-uaw-organizing/

 

[B737 driver]

I've been watching this thread for a while. It's time to weigh but with that said, I'm not getting into all that back and forth flaming, arguing, name calling, and insulting nonsense that these discussions always seem to decay into. It always ends up looking like an online bar fight and I'm not going there.

But.......I'm going to throw this out there. And I say this as a one time staunch AMFA supporter. I met the late O.V. Dell Femine. I shook hands with the man. He was small in stature but he was fiery and passionate about the union he envisioned. In spite of my respect for the late Mr. Femine, I think AMFA's time is up. Dell Femine had a noble idea, to organize all airline industry mechanics under one union. But it just never came to pass. In a nutshell, AMFA is simply ineffective. AMFA is too small and too few in number and that translates to being too weak financially to go head to head against Southwest and its ever increasing hostility toward our work group.

It's not anyone's fault. AMFA is just a victim of the times. For a short period of time, it looked like AMFA might became a very powerful force in this industry, representing the mechanics here at Southwest, Northwest, United, and Alaska, as well as some of the commuters. And there were card drives at American and yes, even at Delta. But we all know what transpired after the 9-11 attacks. The entire industry went into chaos. High fuel prices; bankruptcies; mergers; it was insanity. Success often results from being in the right place at the right time. For AMFA, it was bad luck and bad timing. And more often than not, when timing and fortune are against you, you never recover.

I know this is going to inflame some people but all I say is.....at least give what I'm going to propose some thought. It is time to seriously consider replacing AMFA. And that's not easy to admit. I was a staunch supporter. I handed out cards. But here it is: I propose that we consider beginning a card drive to force a representation election for the United Aerospace Workers, the aerospace arm of the United Auto Workers Union.

The UAW is an industrial union, I get it. But they do have an aerospace division that does have experience representing aerospace industry workers. Are they perfect? No. Show me a union that is, or ever was at any time. But we certainly do not ever want the Teamsters on the property ever again. And you don't want the IAM within a hundred miles of the property.

Here is a link to some of the aerospace companies whose workers are represented by the United Aerospace Workers:

https://www.unionfacts.com/contracts/United_Auto_Workers/Aerospace
https://www.unionfacts.com/contracts/United_Auto_Workers/Aerospace
At Bell Helicopter alone they represent more workers than those represented by AMFA at Southwest and Alaska combined. Yes, many of the Bell and Lockheed and Honeywell workers are machinists and assemblers and are not A&P mechanics. I get that too. But when you combine the total number of all UAW members, and I'm including aerospace, auto, and agricultural industry workers, it adds up to a large and financially strong organization. Have they had setbacks? Yes. What union hasn't?

So what about 2008/2009 when the UAW was forced to renegotiate their contracts at the Big Three at the height of the Great Recession? GM and Chrysler did in fact go into chapter 11. The UAW made concessions. No one can deny that. The alternative was to have the bankruptcy judge abrogate all contracts. Let there be no doubt, the UAW would have been disbanded if they had put their fate in the hands of the bankruptcy judge. But again, they had the numbers and were able to survive that very difficult time in our history. Like I said, they're not perfect. No one ever wants to make concessions. But the entire world was on the cusp of a 1930s style Great Depression. Given the dire economy and what they were up against, I think the UAW did as good a job as they could.

AMFA on the other hand, is too small and will never have the strength to adequately represent the mechanics in the airline industry. And AMFA is not going to rise from the ashes. No one is clamoring for AMFA to represent them anymore. There are no ongoing card drives or rumors of card drives.

It pains me to admit it, but the AMFA experiment is done. It's like having to put down an old sick dog that's been a faithful family pet for many years. Sometimes you have to admit when it's over.

Here's a link to the UAW's organizing site. Like I said, at least give it some thought. Maybe something comes of it, maybe not. Do with this what you will.

https://uaw.org/organize/contact-uaw-organizing/

I wish you luck, tired of arguing with these guys, get ready for the,haters!

 

[Birdman]

I’m not a hater and your entitled to your opinion. So am I. As someone who also met Mr. Famine, a man much taller than even an above average dwarf, in our efforts at AA to rid ourselves of the TWU and who personally spent the last 13 years of my 23 years on agency fee/hand pay I can say I’d much rather have a smaller democratic craft union than any large AFL-CIO affiliated union. The days of simpathy strikes and union strong arming has been quashed by restraining orders and lawsuits. The success of any union small or large rests solely on the unity of its members. Why do you think Mr. McCrady spends so much time trying to divide. I’m perfectly happy with the union at SW knowing if I don’t like the leadership I can start a drive to replace then, something virtually impossible at your run of the mill conglomerate industrial union.

 

[B737 driver]

I’m not a hater and your entitled to your opinion. So am I. As someone who also met Mr. Famine, a man much taller than even an above average dwarf, in our efforts at AA to rid ourselves of the TWU and who personally spent the last 13 years of my 23 years on agency fee/hand pay I can say I’d much rather have a smaller democratic craft union than any large AFL-CIO affiliated union. The days of simpathy strikes and union strong arming has been quashed by restraining orders and lawsuits. The success of any union small or large rests solely on the unity of its members. Why do you think Mr. McCrady spends so much time trying to divide. I’m perfectly happy with the union at SW knowing if I don’t like the leadership I can start a drive to replace then, something virtually impossible at your run of the mill conglomerate industrial union.

Birdman wasn't referring to you, you actually have common sense, I just tired of arguing, it's pointless. This new guy will invite the Hackman attack big time, you know that just preparing him.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

No Thanks, I'll stick with AMFA.

 

[B737 driver]

No Thanks, I'll stick with AMFA.

What is their track record, aren't they Boeing workers union?

 

[I'll have another]

I've been watching this thread for a while. It's time to weigh but with that said, I'm not getting into all that back and forth flaming, arguing, name calling, and insulting nonsense that these discussions always seem to decay into. It always ends up looking like an online bar fight and I'm not going there.

But.......I'm going to throw this out there. And I say this as a one time staunch AMFA supporter. I met the late O.V. Dell Femine. I shook hands with the man. He was small in stature but he was fiery and passionate about the union he envisioned. In spite of my respect for the late Mr. Femine, I think AMFA's time is up. Dell Femine had a noble idea, to organize all airline industry mechanics under one union. But it just never came to pass. In a nutshell, AMFA is simply ineffective. AMFA is too small and too few in number and that translates to being too weak financially to go head to head against Southwest and its ever increasing hostility toward our work group.

It's not anyone's fault. AMFA is just a victim of the times. For a short period of time, it looked like AMFA might became a very powerful force in this industry, representing the mechanics here at Southwest, Northwest, United, and Alaska, as well as some of the commuters. And there were card drives at American and yes, even at Delta. But we all know what transpired after the 9-11 attacks. The entire industry went into chaos. High fuel prices; bankruptcies; mergers; it was insanity. Success often results from being in the right place at the right time. For AMFA, it was bad luck and bad timing. And more often than not, when timing and fortune are against you, you never recover.

I know this is going to inflame some people but all I say is.....at least give what I'm going to propose some thought. It is time to seriously consider replacing AMFA. And that's not easy to admit. I was a staunch supporter. I handed out cards. But here it is: I propose that we consider beginning a card drive to force a representation election for the United Aerospace Workers, the aerospace arm of the United Auto Workers Union.

The UAW is an industrial union, I get it. But they do have an aerospace division that does have experience representing aerospace industry workers. Are they perfect? No. Show me a union that is, or ever was at any time. But we certainly do not ever want the Teamsters on the property ever again. And you don't want the IAM within a hundred miles of the property.

Here is a link to some of the aerospace companies whose workers are represented by the United Aerospace Workers:

https://www.unionfacts.com/contracts/United_Auto_Workers/Aerospace
https://www.unionfacts.com/contracts/United_Auto_Workers/Aerospace
At Bell Helicopter alone they represent more workers than those represented by AMFA at Southwest and Alaska combined. Yes, many of the Bell and Lockheed and Honeywell workers are machinists and assemblers and are not A&P mechanics. I get that too. But when you combine the total number of all UAW members, and I'm including aerospace, auto, and agricultural industry workers, it adds up to a large and financially strong organization. Have they had setbacks? Yes. What union hasn't?

So what about 2008/2009 when the UAW was forced to renegotiate their contracts at the Big Three at the height of the Great Recession? GM and Chrysler did in fact go into chapter 11. The UAW made concessions. No one can deny that. The alternative was to have the bankruptcy judge abrogate all contracts. Let there be no doubt, the UAW would have been disbanded if they had put their fate in the hands of the bankruptcy judge. But again, they had the numbers and were able to survive that very difficult time in our history. Like I said, they're not perfect. No one ever wants to make concessions. But the entire world was on the cusp of a 1930s style Great Depression. Given the dire economy and what they were up against, I think the UAW did as good a job as they could.

AMFA on the other hand, is too small and will never have the strength to adequately represent the mechanics in the airline industry. And AMFA is not going to rise from the ashes. No one is clamoring for AMFA to represent them anymore. There are no ongoing card drives or rumors of card drives.

It pains me to admit it, but the AMFA experiment is done. It's like having to put down an old sick dog that's been a faithful family pet for many years. Sometimes you have to admit when it's over.

Here's a link to the UAW's organizing site. Like I said, at least give it some thought. Maybe something comes of it, maybe not. Do with this what you will.

https://uaw.org/organize/contact-uaw-organizing/

Don't think the UAW has ever represented an airline or dealt with the RLA? Your right about the hostilities this company is displaying towards this work group and this is times of record profits. Just wait til the profits tank! You need 50%+1 to get a challenge. I'll sign one just to see what they have to say.

 

[B737 driver]

Don't think the UAW has ever represented an airline or dealt with the RLA? Your right about the hostilities this company is displaying towards this work group and this is times of record profits. Just wait til the profits tank! You need 50%+1 to get a challenge. I'll sign one just to see what they have to say.

Would be better than Teamsters, IAM, or TWU.

 

[WNMECH]

No Thanks, I'll stick with AMFA.

Ill stay with AMFA also.
I prefer being in control of all our dues money, having SWA mechanics in all positions of leadership in order to insure our dues go to defense of our contract and jobs.
Instead of outsourcing those duties to a national organization of unelected people we could never remove from office who don't give a rats ass about our concerns but only for our money.