Wisconsin and Minnesota: A One-Sided Political Competition

[Kev3188]

 
 

What about the freedom to not want to associate with a union?

Being a dues objector isn't good enough.

Why shouldn't an employee be able to negotiate their own pay and working conditions with an employer?

Shouldn't I be willing to agree to work for a rate of pay I negotiate without the same benefits and protections as a union employee?

That's a simple choice to make; just don't work in/at a union shop.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Nobody here grasps the simple fact that Labor laws, no matter which side they seem to benefit have rigged the dect against those who work and live paycheck?
 
RTW further tips the scale. RTW should be the law of the land the very day the NLRB, NMB, RLA and the rest of the pro business agencies are dismantled. The role of government in this instance is to keep the peace on all sides, no exceptions. 
 
The government has no business interfering in the negotiations between a company and it's workforce. If you want some tort reform, then change the laws regarding wrongful termination.

 

[eolesen]

That's a simple choice to make; just don't work in/at a union shop.

And what happens when you've worked there for 20 years and a union gets voted in? Quit?

Not so simple, Kev.

Just as the freedom of religion allows someone like Tree not to practice a religion, with the freedom to associate, I shouldn't be forced to associate just to pursue employment in a field I want to work in and with a company I want to work for.

 

[700UW]

Yeah, that worked out real well before those agencies and laws were put in place, NOT!
 

 

[700UW]

And what happens when you've worked there for 20 years and a union gets voted in? Quit?

Not so simple, Kev.

Just as the freedom of religion allows someone like Tree not to practice a religion, with the freedom to associate, I shouldn't be forced to associate just to pursue employment in a field I want to work in and with a company I want to work for.

But you will surely take the pay, benefits, scope, vacation and everything else in the CBA.

No one should be able to ride for free.

 

[eolesen]

I guess reading isn't your strong point. I specifically said I should be able to negotiate my pay, benefits, and working conditions.

If I want to get paid more for no insurance, why not?

I get insurance thru my main employer. If I want to work part time, but the union bakes in the cost of insurance, etc. into the wage they negotiated, why shouldn't I be able to get a buck or two more an hour in lieu of that?

In a non-union environment, I can do that. My compensation and benefits can be negotiated different from what someone else gets.

 

[700UW]

And you are also an employee at will and can be fired for almost anything, unless it violates the law.
 
Ask Kip how that goes.

 

[700UW]

 

[Ms Tree]

And what happens when you've worked there for 20 years and a union gets voted in? Quit?Not so simple, Kev.Just as the freedom of religion allows someone like Tree not to practice a religion, with the freedom to associate, I shouldn't be forced to associate just to pursue employment in a field I want to work in and with a company I want to work for.

Agreed

 

[Ms Tree]

And you are also an employee at will and can be fired for almost anything, unless it violates the law.
 
Ask Kip how that goes.

Not almost anything. As several lawyers told me after I got fired from AA. In RTW states you can be terminated for cause, no cause or any cause they make up so long as your civil rights are not violated.

I think the RTW laws are really bad. I'm also not in favor of unions. Had my fill of working with them at AA.

I would rather see the Fed determining work safety and minimum wage laws. Unions can be there to monitor compliance but to give them the right to hold a company hostage strikes me as crazy.

 

[delldude]

Yeah, that worked out real well before those agencies and laws were put in place, NOT!
 

 
When America was growing, many different people and groups contributed immensely in many different areas. Unions were formed out of neccessity from poor working conditions, long hours and so on. Gov't wrote labor work rules, wage standards, safety standards, legislation protecting workers. That is and was fine. That was labors greatest contributions to a new, growing country. Now unions are faced with dwindling membership, no real reason for people to join with employers bound by labor law and setting compettitve wages to keep from unionization. LIke Scott Walker said, unions need to make people want to join......or they are destined to be a part of history. Times have changed since the early days of labor, if unions want to be a viable part of the workforce they need to rebrand or face extinction. The old days of forced unionism is over, the courts have been seeing to that.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No one should be able to ride for free.

Yet you support lifelong "entitlements"......... interesting. 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

As several lawyers told me after I got fired from AA.

HA HA HA HA HA HA.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]You got fired from AA...... seriously.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Someone who pushed back an aircraft, did not even look, and caused 7 million dollars’ worth of damage only got 2 days suspension (according to 700UW.... so take that for what it's worth)........[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]I saw an employee threaten a supervisor in front of over 20 witnesses and he was back the next day....[/SIZE] 
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]You must be an incompetent mess with a logged encyclopedia of screw ups to get fired from AA. I have to say..... I am not at all surprised.[/SIZE]
 

In RTW states you can be terminated for cause, no cause or any cause they make up so long as your civil rights are not violated.

Oklahoma is RTW but American Airlines is still a "closed shop" in this state. I don't know exactly why it is a closed shop but I was told it had something to do with the Railway Labor Act. 
 

I would rather see the Fed determining work safety and minimum wage laws.

Of course you would. You love government control. You are about one shade of RED off from being a full blown communist.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

LIke Scott Walker said, unions need to make people want to join......or they are destined to be a part of history. 

I would have to say I agree with Walker.
 
UNION representation is a business transaction.
 
A UNION like any service provider should earn their keep.
 

if unions want to be a viable part of the workforce they need to rebrand or face extinction.

I disagree. If anything they need to get back to their roots. UNIONS need to worry more about representing the membership and enforcing contract and less about pushing the DIMocrat agenda.
 

The old days of forced unionism is over

Most people can already see that.  
 
Those that can't are products of UNION conditioning and propaganda. They actually believe there is no way they can succeed or have a decent life outside of a UNION. 
 
UNIONS stay in power by making their membership feel powerless and dependent.

 

[Kev3188]

And what happens when you've worked there for 20 years and a union gets voted in? Quit?Not so simple, Kev.

Sure it is. The decisions is to either stay or leave. It may be a difficult decision for someone to make, but it's still a simple one. You're also assuming that someone would want to quit solely on whether or not their firm is (or isn't) represented. That's a bit extreme. Going the other way, 1000's of us had to make that decision when we lost representation. I'm willing to bet the no. of people who left based solely on that outcome is less than a handful.

Just as the freedom of religion allows someone like Tree not to practice a religion, with the freedom to associate, I shouldn't be forced to associate just to pursue employment in a field I want to work in and with a company I want to work for.

No one says you have to. You're free to stay or go.