Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[Kev3188]

Point of order: By corruption, are you referring to the actions of Robert (Bob) Korzuch?

 

[700UW]

Who was removed from office and the whole lodge put under trusteeship, he sued the IAM and lost.

 

[Kev3188]

Exactly, and that's just part of it.

Ironically, he then tried to fashion himself as a sort of anti-IAM guy (or "reform candidate").The anti-worker crowd at DL was all too quick to hitch themselves to his wagon, and it sharing the full story with them made for some interesting times. Lol.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Point of clarification, UA has lost around $700 million in the last 12 months dating back to 2012 but projected to make something like $700 million for 2013.

they showed one big loss due to a one time item to set aside about $700 million or so for the pilots.  The profit sharing checks don't recognize those items so everyone at United still received profit sharing this past January.

 

[T5towbar]

excellent insights all around....

as for this comment, CO's pilots boxed the company into a corner that worked for CO. CO was strong enough in the NYC local market and fuel prices were low enough that the RJ cap that limited RJs to less than 50 seats worked for CO. Fuel prices grew dramatically which has rendered 50 seat RJs less profitable at the same time that CO's overall costs were going up which meant CO couldn't add incremental capacity near as profitably as they once did and CO's costs to operate at hubs like EWR weren't near as attractive as they once were.

Add in that in competition in NYC was heating up dramatically, esp. as a result of the slot deal in which DL added flights to many markets from LGA, the preferred local market airport for short-haul business travel and is using 76 seat RJs while CO is using 50 seaters.

As much as a lot of people want to slam UA, they inherited a bad hand from CO that included restrictive labor agreements. They are trying to replace 50 seat RJs but both the UA and CO pilots aren't going to agree to the massive number of 50 seat replacements with 76 seaters than UA needs - and thus UA will be forced to compete with less desirable and less profitable aircraft in many parts of its network.

Labor can't win when a company has to use non-winning network or fleet strategies.

It also explains why UA is trying so hard to make its mainline fleet as efficient as possible to try to counterbalance its limitations with the regional fleet.

Don't forget the removal of the UA 737 fleet for the 170's. That didn't help things either. They used the regional partners to do most of the domestic work.

Doesn't leave us much to work with. But a smaller M/L jet like the C Series or something like that can help. But our management is still focused on International, leaving large holes in the domestic operation, especially when our codeshare partner US leaves Star.

MIA is a casualty of that strategy.

 

[T5towbar]

they showed one big loss due to a one time item to set aside about $700 million or so for the pilots.  The profit sharing checks don't recognize those items so everyone at United still received profit sharing this past January.

The pilots got the lion's share of it. Didn't leave us much, didn't it?
They had to lowball us, to leave some for MX and the FA's. The FA battle will be very interesting: Money vs Scope - which one will win?

Excellent post.

Agree completely, that is what the sCO agents have told me. MIA is getting outsourced, sCO has always been mainline but sUA has been an express station several years now. The IAM won't lift a finger for their dues payers, nor do they have to. Zero accountability from the appointed cronies. But fortunately other unorganized workers are taking notice of how the IAM fumbled at UA and will hopefully stay away in the future. On one I hand I feel UA would probably have more stations staffed if they were unorganized like DL for no reason other than the company's desire to keep the union out. All the IAM cronies are laughing their way to the bank now on the backs of the dues payers they impose their presence on.

I know the FAs are happy the IAM is gone, especially at EWR given the corruption at LL 2339N.

Josh

Hence the distrust for this union. It's about the dues, not the service.

The only bright light in all of this, there are some people who want and can change this tired District. Hopefully, they'll step up to make this District more accountable to the membership.

 

[737823]

The bottom line is the UA membership approved it, it was their democratic right to do so, if the majority didnt like it they should have come out and voted it down.

Explain why you justify this POS UA CBA saying the membership ratified it, yet for years have gone after freedom for "selling out the small stations for a few pieces of coin"? What changed your perspective? Thought of new dues payers sooner too good to pass up?

Josh

 

[700UW]

PMCO PCE were the only ones not paying dues, everyone else at UA was paying dues all ready, its not about dues money.
 
By the way, Rick will be talking to you, lmao.

 

[737823]

Doesn't answer the question. I can recall the posts where you attack others working at PHX for ratifying a CBA that loosened scope but gave a few shekels to the people at the hubs? Is that what the labor movement is all about?

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Doesn't answer the question. I can recall the posts where you attack others working at PHX for ratifying a CBA that loosened scope but gave a few shekels to the people at the hubs? Is that what the labor movement is all about?

Josh

he blames freedom for something the intl pushed hard for. If freedom is guilty then so is yhe intl.

 

[737823]

he blames freedom for something the intl pushed hard for. If freedom is guilty then so is yhe intl.

And you or any other convenient scape goat. Although he has posted this before, wish he would share the details of Roach selling out US M&R especially since he defends the IAM to no end. Curious to hear his real thought or if he will just stick to the script:

Kev,

I have to agree, I was part of 142 and was a rep and on the NC, I dont get how most of DL 142 is AA employees who were former TW, if the airline you work/worked for is no longer part of the IAM, you should be removed from office.

I like Sito, he has the attack attitude, never was a fan or Roach either, he sold us M&R out at US, I dont want to post it on here, but if you want to know PM me.

There are GCs from US/WN/CO/COEX/WN on the DL 142 E-Board, but I agree, if your no longer IAM, you should finish out your term, and be gone.

Oh and Jester, I watched Fleet at US vote down a union a few times, and it even still took three years for fleet to unionize after the company pillaged them.

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/49450-iam-fleet-service-topic/?p=868238

Josh

 

[700UW]

Wow, I am so glad you all post about me, obsessed much joshie?
 
And I posted that on a public message board, see I didnt hide how I feel, unlike you mr AA or is it mr JP Morgan?

 

[737823]

So tell us what specifically Roach did to sell out M&R at US, you clearly have strong feelings on the matter but worry the IAM loses credibility having them posted, now don't you. All I will say is that I don't work for AA or in the airline industry currently.

Josh

 

[737823]

Please tell us 700, we would like to know.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

"As much as a lot of people want to slam UA, they inherited a bad hand from CO that included restrictive labor agreements."
 
*Cough* *Cough* Bullshit.
 
Theres a reason why CO went from worst to first and UA was sucking pig slough from the bottom of the barrel and it wasnt because of restrictive labor agreements. As you can see from the graphs CO was WAY better than UA.
 
Pre-merger
 
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2010092
 
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2011075
 
Post-merger
 
http://www.jdpower.com/content/press-release/aOGunkG/2012-north-america-airline-satisfaction-study.htm
 
http://www.jdpower.com/content/press-release/5sYQtpZ/2013-north-america-airline-satisfaction-study.htm
 
Ask yourself this question: Why is the company I work for rated second to last among its competitors?

 
your point is valid but many PMCO employees seem to think that CO's success would have continued indefinitely. CO did an outstanding job post BK 2 of rebuilding the company and tapping into high value markets.
But CO also had labor rates (not scale wages but averages that factor in seniority, number of employees at each step, benefits etc) that were lower than their network peers. By the time CO decided they needed to merge, much of that cost benefit had ended as CO moved further and further from BK.

CO also had the benefit of developing EWR while practically no one challenged their growth. DL's focus on LGA and JFK from 2005 forward has made it much harder for now UA to reap all of the revenue benefits of the merger.

Factor in that B6, VX, and WN all entered EWR where CO had previously had little low fare competition and it isn't hard to see why many of the revenue benefits that CO enjoyed were coming to an end.

CO was also sold at the time the 50 seat RJ boom was ending and UA has been left to rebuild its network. The 50 seaters could work when focused largely on high value local markets but the 50 seat RJs are what UA has also tried to use to compete in connecting markets that connect thru their hubs as well as use small RJs to compete in markets where other carriers use larger aircraft.

I am certainly not defending UA's handling of the merger. But I am saying that if a lot of CO people understood that CO wasn't as strong when it sold out to UA as it was several years before, then there would be a whole lot less blame on UA and its people.

UA has a laundry list of things they need to do to turn the company around. Getting PMCO and UA people on the same page is job one.
 

Don't forget the removal of the UA 737 fleet for the 170's. That didn't help things either. They used the regional partners to do most of the domestic work.

Doesn't leave us much to work with. But a smaller M/L jet like the C Series or something like that can help. But our management is still focused on International, leaving large holes in the domestic operation, especially when our codeshare partner US leaves Star.

MIA is a casualty of that strategy.

that is absolutely true but you and others fail to consider that airline mgmt. including at UA has had an adversarial relationship with labor for years. They are not going to invest in jobs for their own unionized people if they can contract the work out and not have to worry about labor issues. With regional carrier contracts, UA can simply cancel them for poor performance... they can't do that with their own labor groups.

UA will push the limits of what it can subcontract out even if it leaves their domestic network less competitive than others.