Who said AA was laying off?

[FWAAA]

I was told recently that all the new hires at JFK Title II are hired at top rate because they cant get anybody, a few years back the union quietly opened the contract and raised the pay for the boiler mechanics several dollars an hour so they could keep and replce the few that they have. Its a sad state of affairs for unionism when the market is the sole driving force for raises.

Very interesting comment there.

Should unions enable workers to extract economic rent or should they focus exclusively on "protecting" the employees against dangerous workplaces and evil management? Why should unions be able to "hold up" their employers and to extract above-market pay?

As an aside, despite OPEC's public pronouncements of production cuts, the price of oil continues to fall, demonstrating their impotence at controlling the market price of their product. Why should American unions be more effective at controlling the price of their labor? Why not be paid the market price?

If you're in favor of your union being able to charge your employer more than the market price for your labor, then I assume you're also in favor of OPEC being able to practice their cartel pricing. If not, then why the inconsistency?

Oil's decline to less than $38/bbl today:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-oil-dives...b-13867414.html

 

[The Goose]

Very interesting comment there.

Should unions enable workers to extract economic rent or should they focus exclusively on "protecting" the employees against dangerous workplaces and evil management? Why should unions be able to "hold up" their employers and to extract above-market pay?

As an aside, despite OPEC's public pronouncements of production cuts, the price of oil continues to fall, demonstrating their impotence at controlling the market price of their product. Why should American unions be more effective at controlling the price of their labor? Why not be paid the market price?

If you're in favor of your union being able to charge your employer more than the market price for your labor, then I assume you're also in favor of OPEC being able to practice their cartel pricing. If not, then why the inconsistency?

Oil's decline to less than $38/bbl today:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-oil-dives...b-13867414.html

That market can be controlled.

While there are numerous prohibitions re: businesses colluding to fix prices, kindly note there are no such protections in the "marketplace" with respect to wages.

OPEC is beyond any controls of the civilized world and can do the same with their oil pricing as corporations do with wages.

Besides - I like the thought of the Emirs having to ride used camels instead of new ones.

 

[Bob Owens]

Very interesting comment there.

Should unions enable workers to extract economic rent or should they focus exclusively on "protecting" the employees against dangerous workplaces and evil management? Why should unions be able to "hold up" their employers and to extract above-market pay?

As an aside, despite OPEC's public pronouncements of production cuts, the price of oil continues to fall, demonstrating their impotence at controlling the market price of their product. Why should American unions be more effective at controlling the price of their labor? Why not be paid the market price?

If you're in favor of your union being able to charge your employer more than the market price for your labor, then I assume you're also in favor of OPEC being able to practice their cartel pricing. If not, then why the inconsistency?

Oil's decline to less than $38/bbl today:

Well because"labor is not a commodity". You may consider yourself the moral equivelent of a unit of oil or a porkbelly but I dont.


From 15 USC 17
The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce.

Nothing contained in the antitrust laws shall be construed to forbid the existence and operation of labor, agricultural, or horticultural organizations, instituted for the purposes of mutual help, and not having capital stock or conducted for profit, or to forbid or restrain individual members of such organizations from lawfully carrying out the legitimate objects thereof; nor shall such organizations, or the members thereof, be held or construed to be illegal combinations or conspiracies in restraint of trade, under the antitrust laws.

So in other words just as capitalists can form limited liability collectives of capital in order to further their own interests so can workers. Effectively what a union does is it takes many workers and makes an offer to provide labor to a company from one source, the company can find another source if they so choose but often its hard to replace a large group of workers just as its hard for workers go from job to job without suffering economic hardship, thats the only leverage the union has, and "all or nothing" deals are not uncommon between corporations so its hardly a "hold up" as you charecterize, its merely putting both parties on a more level playing field.

As far as OPEC setting their prices I dont recall ever saying that they dont have the right to set a price on what they sell. We as a society need to determine if its really in our best interests to be dependant on a commodity thats under the control of such a cartel, not whether or not that cartell has a right to exist. I think you know my position on that.