Which VPs are out?

[EastUS1]

The "rookies" of America West retired their certificate without a fatal accident.

I lost my first long-dead-friend-from-flying many years ago, to a T-38 accident that was determined to be an issue of one of the engines not going into afterburner, which would have provided recovery thrust/speed/new relative wind, after he'd let a student get a bit too close to the "corner" during a final turn/landing scenario. This then, now forever young man was in my estimation an actual Aviator who, although himself hardly so outspoken and arrogant as me, could've "kicked your smarmy AWA-Mommy-bought-my-FAA-ticket-to-do-30-degree-banked-turns-arse" all over the sky on his worst-ever day.

Only the most patheticially childish of all possible village idiots would find egotistical gratification in the whims of Dame Fortune. Can any of you, regardless of how unimaginably arrogant, presume that none could ever have harmed passengers/yourselves through accident? Really? Perhaps you can then explain the AWA "pilots" who destroyed a perfectly good 737 on a perfectly normal landing roll...because the "Captain", with a thrust reverser already wired out and known to be unusable, then pushed the OTHER throttle nearly to the stop, and ran the poor plane off the runway at high speed, thus destroying it? If ANY of you hopelessly childish "spartan" morons actually imagine yourselves to be "bulletproof"....then God Help you if/when anything truly dire ever shows up. Suggested protocol for you should such ever happen: Firstly; don't wet yourselves, secondly; check your worthless egos at the door, and lastly?....and perhaps, only hopefully?...Do something useful to have the situation end well, or at least do your best. Mother Nature and the laws of physics care precious little for your infantile egos, just fyi, "rookie".

 

[Art at ISP]

I'm right here sir, and agree with you completely. No one will argue that that the airline has not improved from "dark days", but let's remember that the bar was much lower than it was for other carriers. While operationally things have improved, Parker has cheapened the operation unnecessarily, and still operates under the flawed assumption that shareholders come first, and customers and employees be damned. It's like the Bethune Doctrine in reverse with Dougie (Empower employees to get happy customers, happy customers make for happy shareholders). Just look at Delta--Anderson and his team get it and they are very profitable. I do remain concerned that this new management team, leaning very heavily on the US side, will try to do to AA what they did at US, but if they do, they won't survive very long. AA typical FF's are very different from US FF's, and if the product and service are cheapened to the point they were with US, they will run in droves to DL or UA (as bad as UA is right now too).

And for what it's worth, not ALL FF's who post on the internet are trying to game the system (US Flyer is right about Flyer Talk though). The people I know and myself are just looking for value and adequate reliable service without being nickel and dimed. Attitudes in Fort Worth must be different than they are in Tempe, or this will prove to be a very bad merger all around. I still don't know what AA employees were thinking in supporting Parker, but time will tell.

My BEST to you all......

 

[john john]

" B-slapped." by some cubicle-dwelling "management" rat? You must be joking.

Your evidenced ignorance speaks volumes, in that neither you nor any of your AWA ilk have ever seen even the slightest semblance of a respectable airline from the inside....unless you were, long-ago, buying tickets on one. USAir was not the pinnacle of such, but AWA?....Well...Words just fail me. One would have to go back in time, before such as yourself could ever claim to be "airline pilots" to know how things once were, and indeed should be. Ignorance isn't always Bliss, but forward yours as proudly as you feel the need to...and all I can say there is that I honestly feel sorry for you.

http://www.forbes.co...1/0611/105.html
America's Worst Airline?
We scoured tons of data on canceled flights, lost luggage, staff rudeness and more to find which carrier is worst at what. And the loser is…
… America West . Even in an industry rife with screwups, crummy service and dissembling, America West stands out as a paragon of badness. It ranks worst in
customer complaints, worst in lost luggage, worst in cabin comfort and next-to-worst in on-time performance. It has one thing going for it: In denied boardings (bumping ticketed passengers because a flight is oversold), it is somewhat less bad than the average airline.
Yet AmWest is only the worst in a field crowded with incompetence. The major carriers have turned business travel into an inescapable evil–a hair shirt with wings. You call an airline and are told your flight will take off on time, only to arrive at the airport and be kept waiting for hours. The food is awful, when you can get any, and thousands upon thousands of bags are misplaced or lost (seeBaggage, p. 108). Airline seats seem designed for stick figures (see Comfort; p. 110). Complain about any of this and you risk arrest (see box, Seething on a Jet Plane, p. 106).

 

[dash8roa]

I lost my first long-dead-friend-from-flying many years ago, to a T-38 accident that was determined to be an issue of one of the engines not going into afterburner, which would have provided recovery thrust/speed/new relative wind, after he'd let a student get a bit too close to the "corner" during a final turn/landing scenario. This then, now forever young man was in my estimation an actual Aviator who, although himself hardly so outspoken and arrogant as me, could've "kicked your smarmy AWA-Mommy-bought-my-FAA-ticket-to-do-30-degree-banked-turns-arse" all over the sky on his worst-ever day.

Only the most patheticially childish of all possible village idiots would find egotistical gratification in the whims of Dame Fortune. Can any of you, regardless of how unimaginably arrogant, presume that none could ever have harmed passengers/yourselves through accident? Really? Perhaps you can then explain the AWA "pilots" who destroyed a perfectly good 737 on a perfectly normal landing roll...because the "Captain", with a thrust reverser already wired out and known to be unusable, then pushed the OTHER throttle nearly to the stop, and ran the poor plane off the runway at high speed, thus destroying it? If ANY of you hopelessly childish "spartan" morons actually imagine yourselves to be "bulletproof"....then God Help you if/when anything truly dire ever shows up. Suggested protocol for you should such ever happen: Firstly; don't wet yourselves, secondly; check your worthless egos at the door, and lastly?....and perhaps, only hopefully?...Do something useful to have the situation end well, or at least do your best. Mother Nature and the laws of physics care precious little for your infantile egos, just fyi, "rookie".

I totally agree that if the US mentality is applied to the merged carrier, it will die a slow death. AA has had a good image over the years and I found their level of professionalism higher than that of US. Parker is for the first time going head to head with the big boys who understand the value of treating frequent flyers as their most important asset.
What we don't need is another larger version of Airways.

 

[john john]

I'm right here sir, and agree with you completely.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-03-04-usairways-lines_N.htm
http://www.ffocus.org/0415biz-usairways041.pdf

Christ and other US Airways executives, in interviews at the company's headquarters Thursday, said they have been distracted the
past year by the complex work leading up to the early March changeover to the single computer reservations system and have
some catching up to do in certain areas.

They said they are working furiously to turn the operation around so the airline doesn't lose passengers in a repeat of a costly
scenario at the old America West Airlines in 2000, under some of the same leadership including CEO Doug Parker.

At what point will frequent fliers, many frustrated by months of mediocre service, befed up enough to retreat in numbers that would
have a negative impact on US Airways' annual revenue? Signs are present that some business travelers are close to running out
of patience. An organized and vocal group of fliers is threatening to bolt en masse, taking several million dollars' worth of itsannual
business.

"People are reaching their boiling point," said Art Pushkin, co-chairman of Frequent Fliers Committed to US Airways Success, or
FFOCUS. The five-year-old group presented a long list of concerns to US Airways executives in a meeting a few weeks ago.

 

[snapthis]

Yeah, Piedmont Airlines. And for me and 99.999% of my co-workers US Air and US Airways. 20,000 hours without a scratch on an airplane or passenger.

The "rookie" comment was an embarrassment to me, but you need to get that chip off your shoulder.

I appreciate your attitude about the "rookie" comment and you'll notice I don't call anyone the S word. I'm sure commuter pilots appreciated the rookie comments as well seen on these boards. I also heard it in the courtroom by none other than the Hudson "heroes" which impressed our pilot group like an episode of Hogan's Heroes.

Hammering our pilot group with false ID theft charges, false RICO charges and having to listen to a bunch of BS during the Addington trial left HPilots with a collective chip on their shoulders.

Fortunately, we'll have US Airways and USAPA as a bad memory in the near future.

 

[snapthis]

I lost my first long-dead-friend-from-flying many years ago, to a T-38 accident that was determined to be an issue of one of the engines not going into afterburner, which would have provided recovery thrust/speed/new relative wind, after he'd let a student get a bit too close to the "corner" during a final turn/landing scenario. This then, now forever young man was in my estimation an actual Aviator who, although himself hardly so outspoken and arrogant as me, could've "kicked your smarmy AWA-Mommy-bought-my-FAA-ticket-to-do-30-degree-banked-turns-arse" all over the sky on his worst-ever day.

Only the most patheticially childish of all possible village idiots would find egotistical gratification in the whims of Dame Fortune. Can any of you, regardless of how unimaginably arrogant, presume that none could ever have harmed passengers/yourselves through accident? Really? Perhaps you can then explain the AWA "pilots" who destroyed a perfectly good 737 on a perfectly normal landing roll...because the "Captain", with a thrust reverser already wired out and known to be unusable, then pushed the OTHER throttle nearly to the stop, and ran the poor plane off the runway at high speed, thus destroying it? If ANY of you hopelessly childish "spartan" morons actually imagine yourselves to be "bulletproof"....then God Help you if/when anything truly dire ever shows up. Suggested protocol for you should such ever happen: Firstly; don't wet yourselves, secondly; check your worthless egos at the door, and lastly?....and perhaps, only hopefully?...Do something useful to have the situation end well, or at least do your best. Mother Nature and the laws of physics care precious little for your infantile egos, just fyi, "rookie".

I too have witnessed a crash and burn of an aircraft piloted by a friend. Lost others, including one who was in the cockpit of TWA 800 who's name will always be in my logbook. We've both been in this business long enough to witness tragedy and loss.

I find myself in agreement with you in many areas but this time I will take a pass to comment any further to your post.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm right here sir, and agree with you completely. No one will argue that that the airline has not improved from "dark days", but let's remember that the bar was much lower than it was for other carriers. While operationally things have improved, Parker has cheapened the operation unnecessarily, and still operates under the flawed assumption that shareholders come first, and customers and employees be damned. It's like the Bethune Doctrine in reverse with Dougie (Empower employees to get happy customers, happy customers make for happy shareholders). Just look at Delta--Anderson and his team get it and they are very profitable. I do remain concerned that this new management team, leaning very heavily on the US side, will try to do to AA what they did at US, but if they do, they won't survive very long. AA typical FF's are very different from US FF's, and if the product and service are cheapened to the point they were with US, they will run in droves to DL or UA (as bad as UA is right now too).

And for what it's worth, not ALL FF's who post on the internet are trying to game the system (US Flyer is right about Flyer Talk though). The people I know and myself are just looking for value and adequate reliable service without being nickel and dimed. Attitudes in Fort Worth must be different than they are in Tempe, or this will prove to be a very bad merger all around. I still don't know what AA employees were thinking in supporting Parker, but time will tell.

My BEST to you all......

Dallas and Tempe are very different cities. All the trees in Tempe have needles instead of leaves and provide no shade. Perhaps the migrant management will notice that trees in Dallas have leaves and provide shade.... for the same price.

Perhaps such a simple illustration from nature could have an impact on porcupines and scorpions.... Heck even rats and possums have a little fur. Will such a simple example from nature translate to better accomodations on the airline? We can only hope.

With our luck the migrants will be fixated on the lessons to be learned from the hard shell armor of the ubiquitous armadillos of Dallas.

 

[Art at ISP]

John John,
Thanks for bringing up ancient history. At the meeting mentioned in your post, I was lied to to my face (not about promises of grand product and service, but in the simple promise of getting back to certain customers about valid issues). We did in fact eventually start a large scale defection to CO and other airlines, and for the most part the customers were happy with their choices.

That said, things change over time. What was the right decision 6 years ago may not be so smart today. While we all realize that the airline business is fluid and changes by the minute, some basic principles remain the same in this and any other business. While customers and employees often need to change their expectations (and believe me I have), management has to learn by their mistakes and change course occasionally. I hold out a sincere hope that this will be the case with Parker and his team, although history is against us there.

I do not question US profits, I question how they were achieved. It was once acknowledged to me by Parker that the total profit of a given year was roughly equal to the amount collected by nickel and diming customers (ancillary fees). It was successful, but I still have a problem with that. Even Bob Crandall has a problem with that. Also, in US' case, paying industry low wages helped the bottom line but did little for morale.

IF, and that is the largest two letter word in the language right now, IF Parker keeps his word about service, product, and keeps most of AA's policies intact, they have a fighting chance to be a real competitor. IF, however, he keeps to his history of considering employees and customers the enemy, and taking the attitude that both are out to steal from him, then the new AA will fail. As I have said before, the Bethune Doctrine has been proven to work time and time again (Worst to First-remember that?).

To be fair, Jeff Smisek is not doing much better over at UA, and has apparently taken pages out of Parker's playbook. Mr. Anderson, however, at DL, appears to get it, and they are on track to be the most successful of the remaining airlines in the industry, investing in customer service, product, and empowering employees to do the right thing when circumstances dictate.

Time will tell, but if past history is any indication, I think it will be a rough ride for the new AA.

 

[Pi brat]

I appreciate your attitude about the "rookie" comment and you'll notice I don't call anyone the S word.

And I appreciate that as the term pushes my button. When I hear it used I try to write it off to ignorance, just like where the "rookie" comment came from.

AWA had some issues at times, just like most airlines, but they management issues. The AWA pilots can be proud of their legacy, just as we are.

 

[Monkee]

I'll forego US Air's Sullied legacy prior to a miracle. The "rookies" of America West retired their certificate without a fatal accident. I know what it is like to fly for a respectable airline with the legacy getting passengers from point A to point B in one piece. Can you say the same?

Yeah, all Doug and the AWA people did was save a craptastic airline full of whiners and turn it into a profitable airline. The east folk are only happy when they can try to spread unhappiness. You would think they would be over it, but, they never are, and they never ever learn.