Christ on a Crutch!!... The J4J issue has been run into the ground already. I think the compliance by enough affiliate carriers is already there to make a difference now. The issue is when will we be cleared to negotiate binding contracts for the leases on these RJ's? This issue is purely as N628AU has been asking When are we going to see these aircraft??? Repeating the party line over and over and over is NOT an awnser . We have plenty on board willing to do the J4J thing...and enough light has been shed on that to last a number of lifetimes. The issue is about getting this needed feed to our mainline flights going! Thus allowing proper utilization of the assets we have on hand. The cost of available seat miles is an issue. The cost of fuel is going to become a bigger issue....so the fewer short hops our mainline aircraft make...the more economical they become. The timeframe of when we are hoped to emerge from CH11 is understood....We have heard that speculation since the beginning. I would be willing to bet , that world events to come , may play he11 with that too. I hope this does not become the case!! I would like to see a plan...and a chosen type announced. That at least would ease some of the anxiety for those awaiting J4J's to materialize into fact instead of talk. Too many folks are hanging in the balance to be attempting to humor them with the known and understood Company and ALPA verbage.
Where art thou RJs?
- Thread starter N628AU
- Start date
C
chipmunn
Guest
N628AU:
N628AU said: I ask again, how does this get us needed RJs any faster? Answer: it does not. More flying in-house is nice, but if it cannot be done in a time frame that helps with the immediate revenue problems, it will cost more jobs at the mainline as we wait for Chapter 11 emergence before securing delivery slots. This all means nothing as Delta, CoEx, and Eagle continue to expand in our markets.
Chip comments: N628AU, I agree that if the affiliate carriers do not agree to J4J, with the exception of Midway, RJs will likely not come into the fleet until the spring. However, there is some reason to believe RJs could be placed at Allegheny, Piedmont, and PSA before US Group emergence.
Chip
N628AU said: I ask again, how does this get us needed RJs any faster? Answer: it does not. More flying in-house is nice, but if it cannot be done in a time frame that helps with the immediate revenue problems, it will cost more jobs at the mainline as we wait for Chapter 11 emergence before securing delivery slots. This all means nothing as Delta, CoEx, and Eagle continue to expand in our markets.
Chip comments: N628AU, I agree that if the affiliate carriers do not agree to J4J, with the exception of Midway, RJs will likely not come into the fleet until the spring. However, there is some reason to believe RJs could be placed at Allegheny, Piedmont, and PSA before US Group emergence.
Chip
St. Leibowitz
Member
- Aug 19, 2002
- 60
- 0
J4J participants:
PDT, PSA, ALG- Join or die
MDW- Join and live
I find the use of the term participate to be astonishingly disingenuous and cynical in this context.
I find nothing astonishing in the fact that the carriers who declined J4J were not under threat of death to accept it and the only carriers who accepted it were.
PDT, PSA, ALG- Join or die
MDW- Join and live
I find the use of the term participate to be astonishingly disingenuous and cynical in this context.
I find nothing astonishing in the fact that the carriers who declined J4J were not under threat of death to accept it and the only carriers who accepted it were.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #19
[blockquote]
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On 10/12/2002 12:27:54 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip comments: N628AU, I agree that if the affiliate carriers do not agree to J4J, with the exception of Midway, RJs will likely not come into the fleet until the spring. However, there is some reason to believe RJs could be placed at Allegheny, Piedmont, and PSA before US Group emergence.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
You are kidding right?
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On 10/12/2002 12:27:54 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip comments: N628AU, I agree that if the affiliate carriers do not agree to J4J, with the exception of Midway, RJs will likely not come into the fleet until the spring. However, there is some reason to believe RJs could be placed at Allegheny, Piedmont, and PSA before US Group emergence.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
You are kidding right?
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #20
Once again, I am not looking for an analysis on the J4J program. I completely understand what it is and why it exists. I am sinply asking the question, WHAT ARE WE DOING NOW TO GET JETS ON LINE IN AN EXPEDITED FASHION TO GENERATE MORE REVENUE? Even though I hate to quote our former president, it has been discussed many times, It's the revenue, stupid! That is our problem, we have backed ourselves into a corner, and now what are we doing to correct it. Reason to believe does not pay the bills, tangible proof and action does.
St. Leibowitz
Member
- Aug 19, 2002
- 60
- 0
Had the conditions imposed by J4J been palatable, the revenue would have begun to flow months ago; albeit through the contract carriers.
Spilled milk.
Spilled milk.
C
chipmunn
Guest
N628AU:
N628AU asked: You are kidding right?
Chip answers: No.
Chip
N628AU asked: You are kidding right?
Chip answers: No.
Chip
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 12
27 AM N628AU wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 12:01:27 AM chipmunn wrote:
N628AU:
N628AU asked: You are kidding right?
Chip answers: No.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
Care to elaborate with any thing more than there is reason to believe? Once again, hard facts and evidence are needed here.
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[/blockquote]
N626AU, Are you starting to feel like a mushroom yet? Being kept in the dark and fed only organic fertilizer ?
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On 10/14/2002 12
27 AM N628AU wrote: [blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 12:01:27 AM chipmunn wrote:
N628AU:
N628AU asked: You are kidding right?
Chip answers: No.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
Care to elaborate with any thing more than there is reason to believe? Once again, hard facts and evidence are needed here.
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[/blockquote]
N626AU, Are you starting to feel like a mushroom yet? Being kept in the dark and fed only organic fertilizer ?
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #24
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 12:01:27 AM chipmunn wrote:
N628AU:
N628AU asked: You are kidding right?
Chip answers: No.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
Care to elaborate with any thing more than there is reason to believe? Once again, hard facts and evidence are needed here.
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On 10/14/2002 12:01:27 AM chipmunn wrote:
N628AU:
N628AU asked: You are kidding right?
Chip answers: No.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Care to elaborate with any thing more than there is reason to believe? Once again, hard facts and evidence are needed here.
gilbertguy
Senior
- Aug 29, 2002
- 368
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 10:12:35 AM AM49AAA wrote:
[blockquote]
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What happened to that saying " you can't shink an airline into profitablility".... ?
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[/blockquote]
You can in CH 11. It allows you to shaft the creditor once you shed the undesirable asset.
Undesirable assets.....is that include employees?
![7.gif']](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg+src%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usaviation.com%2Fidealbb%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2F7.gif%27%5D&hash=e64b0f0cd8ee4bb7cacc78e9ac0256a9)
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On 10/14/2002 10:12:35 AM AM49AAA wrote:
[blockquote]
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What happened to that saying " you can't shink an airline into profitablility".... ?
----------------
[/blockquote]
You can in CH 11. It allows you to shaft the creditor once you shed the undesirable asset.
Undesirable assets.....is that include employees?
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 1:49:21 PM gilbertguy wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 10:12:35 AM AM49AAA wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
What happened to that saying " you can't shink an airline into profitablility".... ?
----------------
[/blockquote]
You can in CH 11. It allows you to shaft the creditor once you shed the undesirable asset.
Undesirable assets.....is that include employees? [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/7.gif']
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[/blockquote]
Especially employees. Union busting in a labor friendly way.
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On 10/14/2002 1:49:21 PM gilbertguy wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 10/14/2002 10:12:35 AM AM49AAA wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
What happened to that saying " you can't shink an airline into profitablility".... ?
----------------
[/blockquote]
You can in CH 11. It allows you to shaft the creditor once you shed the undesirable asset.
Undesirable assets.....is that include employees? [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/7.gif']
----------------
[/blockquote]
Especially employees. Union busting in a labor friendly way.
C
chipmunn
Guest
N628AU:
N628AU asked: Care to elaborate with any thing more than there is reason to believe? Once again, hard facts and evidence are needed here.
Chip answers: Dave told us on our jumpseat he could not fund MDA RJs as a new start up while in bankruptcy, but there may be a way to do it in bankruptcy for other wholly owneds. Dave did not ellaborate, although after PSA ratified J4J, the PSA MEC Chairman directly told a friend of mine PSA could obtian RJs while US was in bankruptcy.
Chip
N628AU asked: Care to elaborate with any thing more than there is reason to believe? Once again, hard facts and evidence are needed here.
Chip answers: Dave told us on our jumpseat he could not fund MDA RJs as a new start up while in bankruptcy, but there may be a way to do it in bankruptcy for other wholly owneds. Dave did not ellaborate, although after PSA ratified J4J, the PSA MEC Chairman directly told a friend of mine PSA could obtian RJs while US was in bankruptcy.
Chip
DorkDriver
Advanced
- Aug 28, 2002
- 128
- 0
If PSA can get jets while in BK, why am I still flying a turboprop? The pilot group at PSA had a contract, that we voted down, shoved down our throats back in March. Then we had concessions, which included J4J, rammed up our rear-end back in August. All of this was done in the name of saving PSA and getting RJs. Until DAVE says that PSA is NOT getting jets, I firmly believe we are, but I have no proof or knowledge of any signifcant nature to back up my belief. So what I am saying is that the pilots of PSA have had a contract, J4J, and concessions on an already sub-industry contract all forced upon us and no jets or any annocuncement of jets has happened. Where are the RJs Chip? If PSA can really get jets, why are we sitting around in our turbo props waiting while Comair moves in to DCA and competes on some of our best routes?
