What a no vote means...

[cavalier]

Bob Owens
Member

Total Posts: 23
Last Post: 9/14/2002
Member Since: 9/9/2002

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Tug Slug;
According to AW&ST it was the reluctance of vendors to change their contracts that pushed U into bankruptcy.
The fact that the company was not up front with the union, filing despite being in the middle of talks, should concern you. If this is how they do business, how can you trust them?


How can YOU be trusted coming from a union who dumped on TWA guys BIG time! (Look for his motive Tug)

 

[NYPD]

[P]Tug_slug,[/P]
[P]Thank you for the excellent post![/P]
[P]I suggest to those who agree with these facts that tug_slug conveys and would like to make sure that other IAM 141-M voters see this information, to copy and paste the text of that post into a Word file. Print it. Make LOTS of copies. Post them on the bulletin boards at work. Hand them out to your co-workers. Talk to people.[/P]
[P]We must get the word out if we want to sway the no votes to the yes votes way of seeing things. This is our future we're voting on, and I for one would like to give US Airways its best chance for survival. Voting the restructuring package down would surely be the demise of the company we work for. Without the support of ALL LABOR GROUPS, US Airways will lose the support of TPG, which will probably lead to Chapter 7 - liquidation.[/P]
[P]Also, to the CWA folks out there...I hope you guys do the same. Get out there and make sure your fellow workers know what's at stake here. I really believe that you won't get the 2nd chance that the mechanics and related got.[/P]
[P]Hang in there everyone! Please vote YES YES YES on Tuesday, September 17th! [/P]

 

[NYPD]

[STRONG][FONT size=3]Thank you Ellen Bruck [/FONT][/STRONG]for the eloquent and informative writing[FONT size=4]![/FONT]

 

[wrenchbender]

I assume tugslug is a stock cleck? He's is a co-worker of Ellen Bruck, stock clerk LAX

I supose if were utility or stock clerk I would vote yes to the proposal because where else can I do so little for so much?
$20 per hour is good money to clean a few airplanes per day or move parts around.

Aircraft mechanics are in a different situation.
There is strong demand for our skills outside the airline industry and plenty of jobs in aviation as well.

Check flipdog.com and search aircraft mechanic.

USAirways is asking too much of us.
We can replace our income within a few years time.

Southwest is currently hiring, top scale is $42 per hour in 2005.

Same goes for UPS, There new TA top scale AMT in 2005 is 43 per hour.
USAirways will be less than $30.

It will cost every AMT more than $100,000 over 6 years of the contract.

Vote no the save our industry from concessions.

 

[tug_slug]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/14/2002 9:43:21 PM NYPD wrote:


Tug_slug,[/P]


Thank you for the excellent post![/P]


I suggest to those who agree with these facts that "tug_slug" conveys and would like to make sure that other IAM 141-M voters see this information, to copy and paste the text of that post into a Word file. Print it. Make LOTS of copies. Post them on the bulletin boards at work. Hand them out to your co-workers. Talk to people.[/P]


We must get the word out if we want to sway the "no votes" to the "yes votes" way of seeing things. This is our future we're voting on, and I for one would like to give US Airways its best chance for survival. Voting the restructuring package down would surely be the demise of the company we work for. Without the support of ALL LABOR GROUPS, US Airways will lose the support of TPG, which will probably lead to Chapter 7 - liquidation.[/P]

----------------
[/blockquote]

I wish I could take credit for writing the article but as I stated in a previous post Ellen Bruck a coworker of mine should be the one that receives the credit.

 

[JonC]

Actually, things like swaps, etc. are governed by the corporate policy manual if you do not have a union. So, you will not lose everything at the company - but you will be at management's mercy.

Still a no, though. Put my vacation back on the table and get rid of retroactive pay.

Jon

 

[chipmunn]

Cav:

Cav said: Why do you think we have outsiders on this board cheering on the NO Voter. They know full well what is at stake. For them a NO Vote means we go away, and a Yes Vote means we not only stick around but become the next SWA. They KNOW this and they are using all the negative emotions this situation creates, as a weapon against you. Negative emotions such as: mistrust, cynicism, fear, anger, self righteous pride. These emotions twist reasoning which plays right into their hands. We go away, so does our threat to them, we stay and prosper and they must do the same, or THEY go away.

Chip comments: Cav, you just identified Bob Owens motivation and self-interest. Your point is valid and a no-vote is a vote to allow others to prosper at US Airways’ employee expense. With thousands of AMT’s furloughed and people willing to work for less at Express, Supplemental, and National airlines, the job market is bleak. However, if YS Airways fails a lot of other airline furloughed AMT’s will get recalled by their company to work on our aircraft.

Argento said: “Don Carty, Leo Mullin and Gordon Bethune also hope you vote NO. That's the best way for them to head off this airline-bankrupcy domino chain off -- they'll be able to ride into the USAir Creditors' Committee wearing white hats and offering to fragment the airline between themselves. (By doing so, they will significantly reduce the risk that USAir will survive and extend its now industry-disruptive lower operating costs across UAL's domestic operation as well). You've heard of heading them off at the pass?? Well, USAir is at the pass and it looks like the IAM is the rest of the industry's best hope for the ambush.â€￾

Chip comments: Argento, like with Cav your point is valid. In fact, three days after the S.1113 hearing the court has scheduled the DIP financing hearing, to decide on the TPG plan or an alternative. However, without a consensual or court-ordered agreement, the TPG plan and DIP financing would become void. Therefore, a no vote could permit Carty, Mullin, and Bethune to fix their problems at the expense of 36,000 US Airways employees, their families, and the communities we serve.

JonC said: Still a no, though. Put my vacation back on the table and get rid of retroactive pay.

Chip comments: JonC, the IAM-M must have a $152 million annual concession to meet the ATSB loan guarantee requirements. If the members wanted more vacation, I'm sure the company would have agreed if their was a higher W-2 cut to offset the change in productivity. In regard to the July 1 retroactive issue, this is the date the concessions are required to begin the timetable to reach a projected 7 percent profit margin, which the ATSB requires and must be provided by an independent evaluation by Fitch Rating, who along with S&P and Moody's are the three credit rating agencies.

Chip

 

[N513AU]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/14/2002 1:00:03 AM tug_slug wrote:

September 17th can be a day that goes into the labor history record. Those who choose to vote no on the US Airways restructuring proposal presented to the members of IAM District 141-M will have gained the attention of both labor and management academics. It will be an example of employees who have some of the best and envied language in a Collective Bargaining Agreement deciding that it is worth sacrificing (never to be reinstated) to demonstrate their anger and frustration at both the company and the union. The bankruptcy judge, for them, is the preferred decision maker whether we retain our work rules and benefits (with modifications until snap backs). US Airways--one of the hated parties-will set the new rules, with no snap backs ever, for the next 6 ½ years. The company is not bluffing. This is the second time the same proposal has been presented; they were not bluffing the first time. The company is clear that they need this agreement-not only for the ATSB loan, but in order that the Debtor in Possession financing becomes available at the next level to enable the company to continue to operate. US Airways again is not bluffing when they again tell us they want to abrogate, nullify, eliminate our Collective Bargaining Agreement. Some of the language that will never be seen again:

There will be no scope language-this presently is what keeps all US Airways aircraft the exclusive work of ALL 141-M members.
There will be no successorship clause.
There will be no Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection.
There will be no seniority-at will employees have no employment protection.
There will be no swaps
There will be no paid moves or bumping rights.
There will be no restricted stock distribution,
There will be no medical coverage for retirees.
There will be no severance-except that which is established by law.
There will be no 85 point plan for retirement.
There will be no seniority accrual on lay-off.

The benefits of the retiree's, who fought for the language in this CBA, will be at risk by those who they tried to protect.

Emotion needs to be replaced with logic and reason. If you vote no there will not be another day to fight; the company will take that away. The short-term gain will not have any long-term benefits-except unemployment. Think of others who want to keep their benefits and wages (even when reduced, better than unemployment or entry level positions) before you vote.

If you vote NO, the decision makers who everyone is so upset with for putting us in this mess are the very same ones who will be dictating your new wages and work rules. That alone is enough to frighten anyone.

A year ago a group of people who were full of hate, behaving based on principals, believing that they would find paradise, took action against other people. The result was devastation to thousands of people and families. History repeats itself in many forms, many not as obvious and not as quickly.
----------------
[/blockquote]

If there is no contract, there will be no US Airways. The coming storm clouds of labor chaos will sink the airline.

 

[tug_slug]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/14/2002 10:16:40 PM wrenchbender wrote:

I assume tugslug is a stock cleck? He's is a co-worker of Ellen Bruck, stock clerk LAX
----------------
[/blockquote]

Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.

Well, Wrench Bender let me fill you in one a little secret. There's more to life than the airline industry.
My house which is now worth over $600,00.00 will be paid off when I reach the ripe old age of 48 (Im currently 43) at which time I plan on retiring and spending my days with my wife sitting on a beach living a life that you can only dream of.
Not bad for someone who moves parts or cleans airplanes huh?

One last thing I heard Jiffy Lube's looking for a few good A&P mechanics.

 

[NYPD]

[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][FONT size=1][STRONG]In response to Wrenchbender’s post…..[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com😱ffice😱ffice /][o😛][/o😛][/STRONG][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][o😛][FONT size=1] [/FONT][/o😛][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][FONT size=1]Sorry…I think you’re fooling yourself and trying to fool others.[o😛][/o😛][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][o😛][FONT size=1] [/FONT][/o😛][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][FONT size=1]As you requested, I took a look at job availability at flipdog.com.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]First of all, as you probably are aware, there are no real aircraft mechanic jobs out there.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Unless of course you would consider spending 10-12 hours per day working on small Cessna airplanes in a dirty dusty T-hangar a rewarding career.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Even if you considered that rewarding, I doubt you’d be looking to make enough of a monthly income at $14/hour to keep making that mortgage payment on a modest $120,000 home. [SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]That’s not to mention your other living expenses and vacation/entertainment allowances.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Remember, there are also around 15,000 other aircraft mechanics on the street right now - and they’ve got a jump on you since you are currently gainfully employed.[o😛][/o😛][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][o😛][FONT size=1] [/FONT][/o😛][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][FONT size=1]My search on the flipdog.com website was very eye-opening.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Although there are other jobs out there, most of them required X-number of years of experience and X-number of years of education (including college degrees) to qualify for the jobs.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Unfortunately, the salary ranges that I saw (even for highly-skilled, highly-educated applicants in high-tech fields) were only $24,000 - $41,000 annually.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]And let me also remind you that, the jobs that are advertised are jobs that haven’t been filled.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]That tells me that they are not very desirable, or that they’ve been filled and the advertisement has continued to run.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]This method of advertising for job openings is much like the newspaper - they’re the employer’s last resort to finding an employee.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]I’d venture to say that given today’s economy, all desirable jobs are long since filled before they ever make the newspaper or the job boards on the internet.[o😛][/o😛][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][o😛][FONT size=1] [/FONT][/o😛][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT size=1][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial]As far as your claim about Southwest and [/SPAN][?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com😱ffice:smarttags /][st1:stockticker][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial]UPS[/SPAN][/st1:stockticker][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial], I’m sorry to inform you that their job openings for mechanics is only in the hundreds at best, not the thousands that would be needed to replace the lost jobs at US Airways alone.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]And even then, if you were lucky enough to land one of those jobs, you’d be starting off at the bottom of the pay scale on 3[sup]rd[/sup] shift with Wednesday/Thursday off.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Also, let me inform you that the hourly wage numbers that you see for these carriers does not tell the whole story.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]A significant part of that wage is needed to pay for insurance benefits.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN][/SPAN][st1😛lace][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial]Holiday[/SPAN][/st1😛lace][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial] and vacation allotments are also not what you might expect.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]They’re certainly not as good as ours here at US Airways.[o😛][/o😛][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][o😛][FONT size=1] [/FONT][/o😛][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial][FONT size=1]Remember….the ATSB and DIP are calling the shots as far as what we’re being asked to give the company.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]That is the restructuring plan that the company proposed and the one that got our ATSB loan approved.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]We are in bankruptcy.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]We have no leverage.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]We do have a job.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN][STRONG]US Airways’ best chance for survival is with a [SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]“YES†vote from 141-M.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN][SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN][/STRONG][/FONT][o😛][/o😛][/SPAN][/P]

 

[oldtimer]

Sir, run,don't walk to WN.........you are not going to see those wages at U, and turning this contract down is only going to guarantee that the rest of us don't have any future with U as well. And for those who think the company deliberately filed for BK while in negotiations just to upset the applecart obviously did now know that it was the creditors and debtors demanding their money that forced us to rush into BK when we did. If we had not, it is my understanding that they could have collectively demanded the monies due and forced us into Chapt.7

 

[tug_slug]

[P]Dam* I hate when that happens!![/P]
[P]Hopefully this will work this time around.[/P]
[P][A href=http://www.angelfire.com/d20/vote_yes/What_a_no_vote_means.doc]What a no vote means[/A][/P]

 

[tug_slug]

 

[NYPD]

[FONT color=#00ff00 size=5][STRONG]YES !!!!![/STRONG][/FONT]