WestJet's AMFA/Engineers reach a T/A with the company

[WeAAsles]

BTW I’d really love to see AMFA strike. What are they waiting for? I mean they said they were going to so what happened? I mean what’s the point in going back to the table when Westjet said they weren’t moving off their last economic offer?

AMFA finally has the chance to redeem itself in the eyes of the industry after the NWA catastrophe. Why aren’t they withholding their work and showing all of us how powerful they are today?

What a joke.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Oh so I guess AMFA didn’t blink also by not telling their members to walk out?

Look man I know you LOVE AMFA but the reality is NO the Airline didn’t lock them out and NO AMFA didn’t walk out either. NEITHER side pulled their triggers. They BOTH blinked.

No - Westjet blinked - AMFA didn't

Westjet was the first to threaten unilateral action when they issued a lock out warning - AMFA only threatened a strike when Westjet refused to return to scheduled negotiations following the TA shootdown. When Westjet couldn't get an injuction on AMFA to stop the strike, they were still free to lock out AMFA ... but they didn't ... they agreed to go back to the table.

Westjet blinked, period.

And the CIRB has also not decided what they want to do yet. They could still shove a deal down their throats. And more than likely it was the CIRB who told BOTH sides to sit their asses back down and figure it out.

The CIRB has not decided - neither did they enjoin either party - If Westjet thought they held the upper hand enough to threaten a lock out, why didn't they? Why agree to go back to the table?

Do you really think ANY Airline Union out there has an upper hand against big business and Governments. Give me a break if you’re that stupid.

I wasn't discussing the industries short comings with big business and governments - I was discussing that Westjet threatened action, the AME's held firm, and the company blinked

How long before you get your retarded buddy to chime in and say I’m a yahoo and he’s so happy he ignores me again

I don't need help taking apart your nonsense

BTW I’d really love to see AMFA strike. What are they waiting for? I mean they said they were going to so what happened? I mean what’s the point in going back to the table when Westjet said they weren’t moving off their last economic offer?

Looks like your lack of reading comprehension is troubling you again ...

"On June 17, WestJet informed AMFA that it was refusing to engage in bargaining sessions scheduled for June 19-20 in Calgary. Instead, WestJet would pursue compulsory arbitration of contractual terms or force the adoption of a collective bargaining agreement that had been rejected by 97.5% of the employees. AMFA served a strike notice in direct response to WestJet refusal to bargain."

"Immediately following the CIRB’s decision, WestJet agreed to return to the bargaining table June 25-26 in Toronto and July 2-3 in Calgary. WestJet’s commitment to return to the table prompted AMFA to withdraw its strike notice."


If its still too difficult for you, maybe you can find someone to read it for you.

AMFA finally has the chance to redeem itself in the eyes of the industry after the NWA catastrophe. Why aren’t they withholding their work and showing all of us how powerful they are today?

What a joke.

Actually you're the joke.

You try to pass yourself off as some kind of unionist when we both know you're nothing of the kind.

 

[WeAAsles]

AMFA STRONG!!!!

 

[SWAMECH]

So Westjet went from a "Lock Out" threat, to a request for arbitration, and has now started parking aircraft. While the end certainly remains to be seen, it looks like Westjet blinked first, most likely due to that TA rejection.

Westjet has apprx 3 times as many pilots as AME's, and they secured a contract with 24% increase in total, last year. If they can remain united, the Westjet AME's should do alright.

Yes they probably will. The company blinking is IMO tied to both the overwhelming rejection of TA, as well as the even more overwhelming % vote to strike. That's when they decided to pull back the "Lock Out" threat way down into an arbitration request. They never saw this much unity coming at them before, and now they are feeling it and seeing it all at once. So nice to see a union and membership with so much unity instead of just caving and giving in like some others we all know.

 

[SWAMECH]

"Doesn't sound like Westjet blinked" ... really?

First, they threaten a lock out and replacement, then when Westjet AME's resoundingly reject the TA, Westjet management refuses to return to scheduled negotiations, and instead tries to force arbitration. Then after the CIRB refuses to provide them a shield against the AME's strike, did they follow through with a lock out? No, they finally agreed to go back to the negotiating table.

Sure appears like they blinked

Oh mines just fine ... it clearly isn't yours.





https://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=923450



Did Westjet follow through with their lock out threat? No, they ran to the CIRB to try to stop AMFA from striking, the CIRB declined to get involved immediately and stop the strike, and then Westjet agreed to go back to the table ... in other words THEY BLINKED

No - Westjet blinked - AMFA didn't

Westjet was the first to threaten unilateral action when they issued a lock out warning - AMFA only threatened a strike when Westjet refused to return to scheduled negotiations following the TA shootdown. When Westjet couldn't get an injuction on AMFA to stop the strike, they were still free to lock out AMFA ... but they didn't ... they agreed to go back to the table.

Westjet blinked, period.




The CIRB has not decided - neither did they enjoin either party - If Westjet thought they held the upper hand enough to threaten a lock out, why didn't they? Why agree to go back to the table?



I wasn't discussing the industries short comings with big business and governments - I was discussing that Westjet threatened action, the AME's held firm, and the company blinked



I don't need help taking apart your nonsense



Looks like your lack of reading comprehension is troubling you again ...

"On June 17, WestJet informed AMFA that it was refusing to engage in bargaining sessions scheduled for June 19-20 in Calgary. Instead, WestJet would pursue compulsory arbitration of contractual terms or force the adoption of a collective bargaining agreement that had been rejected by 97.5% of the employees. AMFA served a strike notice in direct response to WestJet refusal to bargain."

"Immediately following the CIRB’s decision, WestJet agreed to return to the bargaining table June 25-26 in Toronto and July 2-3 in Calgary. WestJet’s commitment to return to the table prompted AMFA to withdraw its strike notice."


If its still too difficult for you, maybe you can find someone to read it for you.




Actually you're the joke.

You try to pass yourself off as some kind of unionist when we both know you're nothing of the kind.

You must be chatting with one of the non-mechanic AMFA haters, who are a mix of 3 who would never praise AMFA for anything when they do a good job.
No worries TSH; the a/c Mechanics in the industry are watching and know what is really going on. And yes WJ did blink on their threat to "Lock Out", then and only then, as quoted, SINCE WJ blinked and did in fact agree to return to the table, is when AMFA agreed to withdraw the strike notice and also get back to the nego table. A smart move by both parties, as now there will be no arbitration since both sides are agreeing to get back to nego's. There is no doubt in anyone's minds it all came together after WJ blinked on the "Lock Out" otherwise nothing else would have came thru to both parties returning to the bargaining table. A Win-Win for all IMO...

 

[WeAAsles]

I guess you did need the help cause there he is as expected. 😂

 

[eolesen]

I have to say the company blinked as well. They returned to the table. Doesn't sound like AMFA ever left, which is probably wise.

And AMFA still holds the upper hand -- they've still got the strike authorization and could engage in a CHAOS type action or just walk out in a week if there's no meaningful progress. Sometimes the wise move is to NOT use the power you hold over your opponent immediately.

Had they just walked off the job the moment they were allowed to, CIRB would have probably stepped in. If the union's acting in good faith, they won't. And, as we've seen before, once you have government arbitration/imposing of a contract, it rarely works out in labor's favor.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have to say the company blinked as well. They returned to the table. Doesn't sound like AMFA ever left, which is probably wise.

And AMFA still holds the upper hand -- they've still got the strike authorization and could engage in a CHAOS type action or just walk out in a week if there's no meaningful progress. Sometimes the wise move is to NOT use the power you hold over your opponent immediately.

Had they just walked off the job the moment they were allowed to, CIRB would have probably stepped in. If the union's acting in good faith, they won't. And, as we've seen before, once you have government arbitration/imposing of a contract, it rarely works out in labor's favor.

Again don’t know what the Laws are in Canada as far as causing “chaos” type action. I also didn’t say that AMFA blinked, I said they “both” blinked. Mechanics didn’t Strike and Management didn’t lock them out. They only went back to the table because they’re waiting on that answer from the CIRB. I don’t think Management is going to move from that last offer?

Would Westjet have people that can do some AC Maintenance if their Mechanics walked? I’m sure they would have some people ready. Enough to cover everything? Highly doubtful. Would “some” also likely scab? I think so. (Opinion) Both sides run risks if they go all the way.

Because Westjet (claims) they gave an industry leading contract if the CIRB does force a deal on them they may not improve what was already offered?

We’ll see what happens in the next few weeks?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

have to say the company blinked as well. They returned to the table. Doesn't sound like AMFA ever left, which is probably wise.

And AMFA still holds the upper hand -- they've still got the strike authorization and could engage in a CHAOS type action or just walk out in a week if there's no meaningful progress. Sometimes the wise move is to NOT use the power you hold over your opponent immediately.

Had they just walked off the job the moment they were allowed to, CIRB would have probably stepped in. If the union's acting in good faith, they won't. And, as we've seen before, once you have government arbitration/imposing of a contract, it rarely works out in labor's favor.

Exactly -

Westjet threatens a lock out - when that doesn't sway the TA vote to their liking, they walk away from previously scheduled negotiation dates. This action triggering AMFA's 72 hour strike notice. - the CIRB refuses to issue an injunction against AMFA at that time leaving them free to strike, and only then Westjet agrees to go back to the table.

 

[WeAAsles]

Exactly -

Westjet threatens a lock out - when that doesn't sway the TA vote to their liking, they walk away from previously scheduled negotiation dates. This action triggering AMFA's 72 hour strike notice. - the CIRB refuses to issue an injunction against AMFA at that time leaving them free to strike, and only then Westjet agrees to go back to the table.

No. Basically from the Westjet point of view when AMFA had their Strike vote management gave them the American version of their Last Best and Final offer saying if AMFA didn’t accept it they were going to lock them out. AMFA then made the “right decision” and sent it out to their new membership to see if they would accept it as their first contract. Remember they do not have any Union contract yet.

When the membership voted no they went to the CIRB to see if they would shove it down those workers throats. “That” decision HAS NOT been made yet. But before that neither party will or is probably allowed to move. So in the interim they all go back to the table.

That does not mean either side is going to or is willing to move off their positions.

You guys are putting the cart before the Horse in your enthusiasm to see AMFA chalk up a victory. Maybe they will have a victory? But currently that Jury is still out. The verdict hasn’t come yet.

 

[SWAMECH]

I have to say the company blinked as well. They returned to the table. Doesn't sound like AMFA ever left, which is probably wise.

And AMFA still holds the upper hand -- they've still got the strike authorization and could engage in a CHAOS type action or just walk out in a week if there's no meaningful progress. Sometimes the wise move is to NOT use the power you hold over your opponent immediately.

Had they just walked off the job the moment they were allowed to, CIRB would have probably stepped in. If the union's acting in good faith, they won't. And, as we've seen before, once you have government arbitration/imposing of a contract, it rarely works out in labor's favor.

Exactly -

Westjet threatens a lock out - when that doesn't sway the TA vote to their liking, they walk away from previously scheduled negotiation dates. This action triggering AMFA's 72 hour strike notice. - the CIRB refuses to issue an injunction against AMFA at that time leaving them free to strike, and only then Westjet agrees to go back to the table.

Agree with both. And like E pointed out, it was a good move by AMFA to remain at the table even all the while the co refused to return to the table. This always kept AMFA's condition in good bargaining faith where the co was quickly moving away from it.
Also, yes, AMFA still holds onto the strike vote at 99%, so again AMFA does hold a bit of a leverage, if ya will, while returning to the table to nego. Will be interesting to watch it all going forward. I praise both sides for getting back to the table as a final result and no lock out or strike commencing. Win-Win...

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You guys are putting the cart before the Horse in your enthusiasm to see AMFA chalk up a victory.

Where did I ever allude to an AMFA "victory"? Here is my original post in its entirety ...

So Westjet went from a "Lock Out" threat, to a request for arbitration, and has now started parking aircraft. While the end certainly remains to be seen, it looks like Westjet blinked first, most likely due to that TA rejection.

Westjet has apprx 3 times as many pilots as AME's, and they secured a contract with 24% increase in total, last year. If they can remain united, the Westjet AME's should do alright.

I clearly stated ... the end certainly remains to be seen ... and went on to say that Westjet blinked first - Which they did

You took issue with that, and went on to argue ( at first ) that they didn't ...

Doesn’t sound like Westjet blinked.

When you couldn't defend that position, you then changed your story to ...

They BOTH blinked.

And in your latest post, you're so preoccupied with not appearing wrong on Westjet blinking, that you contradict your own post earlier in the thread ...

Basically from the Westjet point of view when AMFA had their Strike vote management gave them the American version of their Last Best and Final offer saying if AMFA didn’t accept it they were going to lock them out. AMFA then made the “right decision” and sent it out to their new membership to see if they would accept it as their first contract.

Funny thing, when AMFA first sent the TA to their membership, you said this ...

AMFA p*ssied out. This was their update from only about a month ago. I’ll bet any amount of money that what they were being offered then had no improvements to what they had shoved down their throats now.

"AMFA p*ssied out." vs "AMFA then made the “right decision” ... Not really the same now are they?

When the membership voted no they went to the CIRB to see if they would shove it down those workers throats. “That” decision HAS NOT been made yet. But before that neither party will or is probably allowed to move. So in the interim they all go back to the table.

There is no "probably allowed" - the CIRB refused Westjets request for injunction - period

Here's the link again -

https://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=923450

CENTENNIAL, Colo. – June 20, 2024 – Last night, the Canada Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) held a more than six-hour emergency conference regarding the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) and WestJet, an Alberta Partnership (WestJet).


On June 17, WestJet informed AMFA that it was refusing to engage in bargaining sessions scheduled for June 19-20 in Calgary. Instead, WestJet would pursue compulsory arbitration of contractual terms or force the adoption of a collective bargaining agreement that had been rejected by 97.5% of the employees. AMFA served a strike notice in direct response to WestJet refusal to bargain. Subsequently, WestJet asked for a request for relief and CIRB intervention.


In a decision rendered late last night, the CIRB declined WestJet’s application for an injunction that would have prevented WestJet’s Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (AMEs) from striking.


The CIRB’s decision is a critical reaffirmation of union employees’ fundamental right to strike providing the parties have satisfied the appropriate conditions and requirements. As such, the Board will not interfere with AMFA’s strike action urging WestJet to return to the bargaining table and achieve a deal.


Immediately following the CIRB’s decision, WestJet agreed to return to the bargaining table June 25-26 in Toronto and July 2-3 in Calgary. WestJet’s commitment to return to the table prompted AMFA to withdraw its strike notice.


“AMFA’s goal all along is to bargain an industry-changing contract acceptable to our members,” stated Bret Oestreich, AMFA National President. “We hope that WestJet’s agreement to return to the table means we can get the contract our members want. Meanwhile, the result of the strike authorization vote, authorized by 99.18% of the workgroup, remains in force until July 9, 2024, and the Board's decision late last night reinforces that the rights of our membership have not been impeded.”


“We will return to the table to negotiate a contract that improves wages, benefits, and quality of life. Compared to other Canadian trades, the AMEs and related skilled workgroups have been suppressed for decades at WestJet and across the entire aviation industry.


At this time, the AMFA-WJ membership must refrain from any job action as the parties continue bargaining.

Westjet tried to sway the TA with a Lock Out threat - the AME's responding with an overwhelming TA shoot down - Westjet then refused to attend negotiations as scheduled and ran to the CIRB to try and have AMFA enjoined in arbitration - The CIRB refused to enjoin AMFA, and then Westjet went back to the table ... Again, Westjet blinked first.

 

[WeAAsles]

With respect to WestJet's request for arbitration, the CIRB has advised it will require “additional time” and submissions from both parties “before making a decision” on whether or not collective bargaining for our first agreement should be resolved by way of arbitration.

WestJet and AMFA mutually agree to return to the bargaining table, preventing further network cancellations

WestJet today, appeared before the Canadian Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) to discuss the airline's request for arbitration, in the negotiations process between the airline and the Aircraft...

westjet.mediaroom.com

 

[WeAAsles]

AMFA threatened to go on Strike. They did not walk. BLINK.
Westjet threatened to lock them out of work. They did not lock them out. BLINK.

They BOTH pulled out their puds and started whacking at the same time. Period.

Mic 🎤 drop. (Edited: Spelled Mic, Mike. 😂 What was I thinking)

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

With respect to WestJet's request for arbitration, the CIRB has advised it will require “additional time” and submissions from both parties “before making a decision” on whether or not collective bargaining for our first agreement should be resolved by way of arbitration.

... and???

None of the above contradicts this -

In a decision rendered late last night, the CIRB declined WestJet’s application for an injunction that would have prevented WestJet’s Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (AMEs) from striking.

None of the above contradicts this -

The CIRB’s decision is a critical reaffirmation of union employees’ fundamental right to strike providing the parties have satisfied the appropriate conditions and requirements. As such, the Board will not interfere with AMFA’s strike action urging WestJet to return to the bargaining table and achieve a deal.

None of the above contradicts this -

Immediately following the CIRB’s decision, WestJet agreed to return to the bargaining table June 25-26 in Toronto and July 2-3 in Calgary. WestJet’s commitment to return to the table prompted AMFA to withdraw its strike notice.

As for this nonsense ...

AMFA threatened to go on Strike. They did not walk. BLINK.
Westjet threatened to lock them out of work. They did not lock them out. BLINK.

They BOTH pulled out their puds and started whacking at the same time. Period.

Wrong - they did not act at the same time.

Westjet's 72 Hour Lock Out notice was filed on May 4th

AMFA's 72 Hour Strike notice was filed on June 17th


Westjet threatened a Lock Out first, and instead of following through, they ran to the CIRB

Westjet blinked first - Period.