We need cheap fares to compete....

[FrequentFlierCA]

Cheap fares to compete is nothing new to AMR or the industry. Erosion of pricing power among the legacy airlines has been happening for decades, and the internet served to accelerate that process with greater transparency and access for all (all with an internet connection, anyway).

If Southwest was the nightmare of the 80s and 90s, JetBlue and Virgin America are the scourge of the present and future. New aircraft, junior and low paid staff, no pension obligations; all this means Virgin can offer those $69 fares LAX-SEA. UA of course has to match to stay competitive (especially with their inferior soft product) but a $69 won't pay the bills at United, if it even does at Virgin.

International markets are the only refuge left, and even those will eventually fall.

 

[MCI transplant]

Cheap fares to compete is nothing new to AMR or the industry. Erosion of pricing power among the legacy airlines has been happening for decades, and the internet served to accelerate that process with greater transparency and access for all (all with an internet connection, anyway).

If Southwest was the nightmare of the 80s and 90s, JetBlue and Virgin America are the scourge of the present and future. New aircraft, junior and low paid staff, no pension obligations; all this means Virgin can offer those $69 fares LAX-SEA. UA of course has to match to stay competitive (especially with their inferior soft product) but a $69 won't pay the bills at United, if it even does at Virgin.

International markets are the only refuge left, and even those will eventually fall.

<_< ------- Yep! The downward spiral continues to be the legacy of deregulation!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- Yep! The downward spiral continues to be the legacy of deregulation!

Was there ever a period (more than a decade) where overall real prices(adjusted for inflation) for air travel went up?

From what Ive read prices have been declining since the industry started. As planes got bigger and more effecient those efficiencies were passed on to the consumer, this occured prior to deregulation.

Deregultaion simply opened the door for the industry to attack its workers. Workers were vulnerable because they all based their careers around a single corporation and they failed to solidify the structure of labor within the industry. We have nearly as many unions as there are airlines and the unions are in a race to the bottom.

 

[The Goose]

... snip
We have nearly as many unions as there are airlines and the unions are in a race to the bottom.

... with respect to the workers, I agree.

Those in the International seem to be doing OK for themselves also - I guess the company isn't the only group not "sharing the pain".

 

[MCI transplant]

Was there ever a period (more than a decade) where overall real prices(adjusted for inflation) for air travel went up?

From what Ive read prices have been declining since the industry started. As planes got bigger and more effecient those efficiencies were passed on to the consumer, this occured prior to deregulation.

Deregultaion simply opened the door for the industry to attack its workers. Workers were vulnerable because they all based their careers around a single corporation and they failed to solidify the structure of labor within the industry. We have nearly as many unions as there are airlines and the unions are in a race to the bottom.

<_< -----Bob, from someone who worked in a "regulated" Industry,----- one of the main things it did was to provide a minimum price floor that any particular Airline could charge for any give route. This one reg. provided stability within the Industry. That minimum was determined by the CAB.

 

[JimJimmyJim]

You have lost pricing power to Southwest precisely because labor costs are too high. You're being paid on regulation-era wage scales and the company is having to compete with deregulation upstarts like JetBlue, whose lower costs allow them to constantly under AA on price.

Still no answer. I thought you had them all.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Pricing is insane.
I purchased a ticket on AA in 1982 SFO-ORD $300.
Now I can get a ticket for $68.
Insane!

Inflation Calculator

What cost $300 in 1982 would cost $660.83 in 2008.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2008 and 1982,
they would cost you $300 and $133.11 respectively.

What cost $68 in 2008 would cost $30.87 in 1982.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1982 and 2008,
they would cost you $68 and $153.25 respectively.

Nice wide coach seats, free meals, seat pitch so that the person in front doesn't slap you in the forehead when reclining.

Is this nuts or what?

B) xUT

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

A fine example of the employee subsidizing the fares of today

 

[UAL_TECH]

Cheap fares to compete is nothing new to AMR or the industry. Erosion of pricing power among the legacy airlines has been happening for decades, and the internet served to accelerate that process with greater transparency and access for all (all with an internet connection, anyway).

If Southwest was the nightmare of the 80s and 90s, JetBlue and Virgin America are the scourge of the present and future. New aircraft, junior and low paid staff, no pension obligations; all this means Virgin can offer those $69 fares LAX-SEA. UA of course has to match to stay competitive (especially with their inferior soft product) but a $69 won't pay the bills at United, if it even does at Virgin.

International markets are the only refuge left, and even those will eventually fall.

And that is why pricing will give you a single seat on Greyhound.
You clowns deserve a Greyhound seat.
B) xUT

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

How much should we make if we are so overpaid? $9, $10 an hour? What do you think would be fair FrequentFlierCA?

Missed this the first time around. You should be paid what the market will bear. In the era of low cost carriers that number has dropped significantly. Look no further than the pay scales of JetBlue for your future.

 

[JimJimmyJim]

Missed this the first time around. You should be paid what the market will bear. In the era of low cost carriers that number has dropped significantly. Look no further than the pay scales of JetBlue for your future.

JetBlue makes more than AA mechanics per the companies pay scale chart so that is at least in the right direction. Not nearly enough but in the right direction. Now don't start talking about total compensation since in your post you say "look no further than the pay scale of JetBlue.

 

[Bob Owens]

Missed this the first time around. You should be paid what the market will bear. In the era of low cost carriers that number has dropped significantly. Look no further than the pay scales of JetBlue for your future.

Well we'll never know what "the market will bear" due to the RLA which restricts our ability to use market forces to our advantage.

Lets get rid of the RLA, go with the NLRA and see what happens.

 

[FA Mikey]

That must be whats holding you back. Never mind you cannot even get enough members here at AA to support leaving the TWU for a dedicated mechanics union. In reality if you cannot even get enough people in your own company to support the idea, can you really believe that somehow thousands of members from different carriers will magically come together?

The reality is the RLA and the NLRA is whats kept airline unions alive.

 

[Bob Owens]

That must be whats holding you back. Never mind you cannot even get enough members here at AA to support leaving the TWU for a dedicated mechanics union. In reality if you cannot even get enough people in your own company to support the idea, can you really believe that somehow thousands of members from different carriers will magically come together?

The reality is the RLA and the NLRA is whats kept airline unions alive.

You obviously dont know what you're (or I'm) talking about.

 

[The Goose]

JetBlue makes more than AA mechanics per the companies pay scale chart so that is at least in the right direction. Not nearly enough but in the right direction. Now don't start talking about total compensation since in your post you say "look no further than the pay scale of JetBlue.

Don't try to confuse the office people with facts - they make enough mistakes as it is.