We all must bow down before the sky gods!

[eolesen]

David Burke was already terminated by PSA.

Fair 'nuff, although PSA had already been acquired by US and was in the process of merging at the time of the crash.

a terminated employee's ID is invalidated, and will be detected by a card swipe.

There's a chance that it will be invalidated, and there's also a chance that the airline won't get around to telling the airport authority to take it out of the system until the next business day. Or maybe the day after. Or perhaps a week later. Assuming the airport authority gets around to it themselves...

The Registered Traveler thing should be extended free to employees and retirees, working or traveling, since we have already been thoroughly vetted.

OK, but all that Registered Traveler will do for you is give you an express lane. Registered Travelers will still have to remove laptops from carryon bags, take off shoes, and do all the other nonsense that we currently have to do.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Assuming the airport authority gets around to it themselves...

Aye, There's the rub. Ours are clowns.

 

[Bob Owens]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='439597' date='Dec 19 2006, 10:26 PM']Thanks to the APA, you will not be seeing AA metal at a PEK gate anytime soon :angry: ![/quote]
It takes two to tango and ultimately the blame lies with AA mgmt for refusing to move.

AS far as the low priority mechs get thats our fault, we should have struck when the company refused to adhere to the contract. They agreed to language then reneged on the deal.

 

[AAviator]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='439597' date='Dec 19 2006, 10:26 PM']The FAA will allow flight attendants and mechanics to ride the flight deck jumpseat. It's up to the American Airlines Administrator to change the policy. If the flight attendants read their contract they will see the jumpseat agreement is between the AA Administrator and the APFA. I don't know what the pilots contract says, but I'm sure it's the same.

Other airlines allow their flight attendants to ride the flight deck jumpseat for travel/commute purposes.

Thanks to the APA, you will not be seeing AA metal at a PEK gate anytime soon :angry: ![/quote]
Can you show me where it says Flight attendants are "airmen"?

Thanks,


Straaighttaalk,
Cat got your tongue?

Bob,
Bullseye (again)

The route is estimated to be worth 100 million in revenue annualized. And F/A jumpseats killed the deal.


Riiiiiight.

 

[ILS2MINIMUMS]

Employees Jumping The Airport Security Line

More AA "Sky God" nonsense.

I completely understand the need for flight crews to "jump the line," in places where no employee line exists, as, clearly, if WE do not go, THEY do not go.

But there is such a thing as courtesy. It takes merely a second, and very little effort, to turn to the person behind you, and pleasantly say, "Excuse me," followed by, perhaps, "I'm really sorry. They don't provide us with a crew line, and we have to get through or our flight won't leave on time." Or something to that effect.

I recently witnessed an AA Captain at JFK rudely push ahead of a passenger, without even looking at him. Just pushed him out of the way at the head of the conveyor belt at the security checkpoint. I, also in uniform, was patiently waiting BEHIND the passenger, and noticed the Captain's brusque, "Get out of my way" attitude. Even the TSA official mentioned to the passenger, while motioning to me, "At least HE'S not pushing ahead of you." I responded by saying, "That's because I have manners." The Captain heard it...gave me a nasty look in your opinion...would probably have flipped me off if nobody else were aroundagain, more biased conjecture...and went through the Xray. The very nice, patient passenger this Captain had pushed out of the way just looked at me, and all I could say is, "Sorry. We are not all like that."
As luck would have it, my gate was adjacent to the pilot's, towards the end of the very long concourse. He must have been paranoid that I was going to write him up,more conjecture as he kept turning around to see if I was following him. He then went to his gate; walked past his gate; made some lazy circles in the concourse; and did everything in his power so that I could not see which flight he was getting on. I could not help seeing which flight he ultimately boarded as my gate was adjacent to his.maybe he was just displaying more 'typical' pilot behavior like looking for half-full cups of Starbucks or a gently-used free newspaper...

His paranoia indicated to me that he's probably been called in for his attitude before.

Not that this even needs to be stated, but there are complete losers on both sides of that cockpit door...

You gave an example of bad behavior, so will I:

Earlier this week while waiting for our plane to be towed to the gate, three flight attendants were standing at the podium. The Captain was at Burger King, and I was sitting next to a couple who'd started asking me about the weather in DFW. The agent had gone down the jetbridge to meet the tow-in. Two of the flight attendants were bidding and apparantly got tired of passengers coming up and mistaking them for agents and asking them questions... The "stewardess" said to a passenger, "ma'am, do I look like an agent to you? I'm a flight attendant, I can't help you..." and looked back down at the computer screen while totally ignoring the passenger...

Cut to 3 minutes later: The agent had come back up and opened the jetbridge door and started checking ID's as the flight attendants went down to the plane. As the number one got about 10 feet down the jetbridge, the agent said she'd send the people down in about 20 minutes because we had such a light load. The previously-mentioned "stewardess" said in a voice loud enough for everyone in the boarding area to hear, "oh great honey, you know that's how we like 'em"... The people with whom I'd been discussing the weather asked me tongue-in-cheek if things were so good for the airlines we could be happy about light loads... I just rolled my eyes and chuckled.
The reason I referred to the number one as a 'stewardess', is because this GROWN MAN's nametag on his AA-issued blazer said "Miss Stewardess", and his wings had a badge affixed to them that said "oh Miss".

The curt and unprofessional remark to the passenger at the counter was witnessed by no less than 70 people and spoke volumes about the general attitude of the crew they were about to be stuck with for 3 hours. I, like you, found myself in the position of having to apologize for the actions of a fellow crewmember...

This incident was an isolated event, but was not as uncommon as one might hope...

 

[Skymess]

Employees Jumping The Airport Security Line

More AA "Sky God" nonsense.

I completely understand the need for flight crews to "jump the line," in places where no employee line exists, as, clearly, if WE do not go, THEY do not go.

But there is such a thing as courtesy. It takes merely a second, and very little effort, to turn to the person behind you, and pleasantly say, "Excuse me," followed by, perhaps, "I'm really sorry. They don't provide us with a crew line, and we have to get through or our flight won't leave on time." Or something to that effect.

I recently witnessed an AA Captain at JFK rudely push ahead of a passenger, without even looking at him. Just pushed him out of the way at the head of the conveyor belt at the security checkpoint. I, also in uniform, was patiently waiting BEHIND the passenger, and noticed the Captain's brusque, "Get out of my way" attitude. Even the TSA official mentioned to the passenger, while motioning to me, "At least HE'S not pushing ahead of you." I responded by saying, "That's because I have manners." The Captain heard it...gave me a nasty look...would probably have flipped me off if nobody else were around...and went through the Xray. The very nice, patient passenger this Captain had pushed out of the way just looked at me, and all I could say is, "Sorry. We are not all like that."

As luck would have it, my gate was adjacent to the pilot's, towards the end of the very long concourse. He must have been paranoid that I was going to write him up, as he kept turning around to see if I was following him. He then went to his gate; walked past his gate; made some lazy circles in the concourse; and did everything in his power so that I could not see which flight he was getting on. I could not help seeing which flight he ultimately boarded as my gate was adjacent to his.

His paranoia indicated to me that he's probably been called in for his attitude before.

First, I seriously doubt he was disturbed you may write him up. It's not going to do much good to write anyone up for jumping the line, regardless of how they do it, when the signs clearly say let the flight crew ahead of you.

Second, there is nothing worse than someone who is an apologist for someone elses behavior. Monitor your own behavior and leave modifications of others' behavior to them.

I jumped the line in Portland last week and this nasty old man told me I couldn't cut in front of him, even after I apologized for getting in front of him. I told him I was sorry to get in front of him but he was having none of it and tried to force my stuff off the belt. I told him that's how it was and forced my stuff on. I then ignored him because, whether I apologize or not, I'm going first. The apology is just a courtesy.

I would guess the pilot in JFK was a little irritated that the " crew" line in JFK was never open solely for crew and that he contstantly had to battle his way to the front. He may not have been apologetic about it but did he actually have a confrontation with anyone or yell at anybody? Getting to work at JFK is a battle starting from the employee bus to the checkpoints. The worst is terminal 8 when it is crowded and you have to do the "excuse me, pardon me" routine as you bob and weave through the first class/executive platinum line around strollers and roller bags.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Guess we can see who's dating/married to a pilot. The first ones to rush to their defense are usually the ones with a "personal" interest in "defending the profession. "

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Bottom line...Jetblue management went to the FAA and secured an exemption for their flight attendants to occupy the cockpit jumpseat.

Failing American Airlines' managements efforts at doing the same, nothing stops the APA from petitioning the FAA, as well, to secure the same access for AA flight attendants, in order for AA pilots to gain access to the cabin jumpseat. Quid pro quo.

Why APA and not APFA? Because APA initiated this power grab, and it all depends on how badly they want access to that cabin jumpseat.

If they truly want it, they will do the work, and ensure the appropriate approvals, to give equity to flight attendants with regard to the cockpit jumpseat.

They won't do it because neither APA nor the pilots want flight attendants on "their" jumpseats, the same as we don't want them on "ours."

Typical...AA pilots simply want it handed to them.

Again, I blame it on their mothers.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Not that this even needs to be stated, but there are complete losers on both sides of that cockpit door...

You gave an example of bad behavior, so will I:

Earlier this week while waiting for our plane to be towed to the gate, three flight attendants were standing at the podium. The Captain was at Burger King, and I was sitting next to a couple who'd started asking me about the weather in DFW. The agent had gone down the jetbridge to meet the tow-in. Two of the flight attendants were bidding and apparantly got tired of passengers coming up and mistaking them for agents and asking them questions... The "stewardess" said to a passenger, "ma'am, do I look like an agent to you? I'm a flight attendant, I can't help you..." and looked back down at the computer screen while totally ignoring the passenger...

Cut to 3 minutes later: The agent had come back up and opened the jetbridge door and started checking ID's as the flight attendants went down to the plane. As the number one got about 10 feet down the jetbridge, the agent said she'd send the people down in about 20 minutes because we had such a light load. The previously-mentioned "stewardess" said in a voice loud enough for everyone in the boarding area to hear, "oh great honey, you know that's how we like 'em"... The people with whom I'd been discussing the weather asked me tongue-in-cheek if things were so good for the airlines we could be happy about light loads... I just rolled my eyes and chuckled.
The reason I referred to the number one as a 'stewardess', is because this GROWN MAN's nametag on his AA-issued blazer said "Miss Stewardess", and his wings had a badge affixed to them that said "oh Miss".

The curt and unprofessional remark to the passenger at the counter was witnessed by no less than 70 people and spoke volumes about the general attitude of the crew they were about to be stuck with for 3 hours. I, like you, found myself in the position of having to apologize for the actions of a fellow crewmember...

This incident was an isolated event, but was not as uncommon as one might hope...

I guess this is worse than a pilot shoving a PAYING passenger out of his way on deplaning so that he can catch his commuter flight, when he should be saying goodbye to the people that pay his salary. Yeah, right.

And what stopped you from saying, "Excuse me," to the couple with whom you were chatting, and then getting up to assist the passengers that needed assistance? Not in your job description, I guess? Don't forget who pays your paycheck. Those passengers. I'm sure you felt like you were doing the two people a FAVOR who asked you a question about the weather in DFW, as well. From the way you described the scene, nothing prevented you from getting up off your hindquarters to assist the passengers in need at the podium.

As far as the light load, and the comment made by the flight attendant, I'm sure you would be saying the same thing if it more effort to fly the plane when it was full.
Every flight attendant at AA has faced full loads for months now; a light load now-and-then is appreciated.

With regard to his name tag, get a sense of humor, for Pete's sake. Or does your sense of humor stop at silly pilot ties and the inappropriate types of jokes we know you guys tell when you're amongst yourselves?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Can you show me where it says Flight attendants are "airmen"?

Thanks,
Straaighttaalk,
Cat got your tongue?

Bob,
Bullseye (again)

The route is estimated to be worth 100 million in revenue annualized. And F/A jumpseats killed the deal.
Riiiiiight.

I was out flying. Some of us don't get the opportunity to sit at home on reserve the way most pilots do.

 

[Mach85ER]

I was out flying. Some of us don't get the opportunity to sit at home on reserve the way most pilots do.

When you sober up, you might realize how stupid your statement is.

 

[Skymess]

Guess we can see who's dating/married to a pilot. The first ones to rush to their defense are usually the ones with a "personal" interest in "defending the profession. "

I have an interest in defending my profession. I don't pay too much attention to other people's. Nor do I stick my nose where it doesn't belong and apologize for someone elses "alleged" behavior.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I have an interest in defending my profession. I don't pay too much attention to other people's. Nor do I stick my nose where it doesn't belong and apologize for someone elses "alleged" behavior.

Ummm..yeah, right.

When you sober up, you might realize how stupid your statement is.

I'm very sober. If, as you infer, it is a misconception that pilots don't fly on reserve, and that they don't "work" the system, then tell it to your "brothers" who come stomping onto the employee bus each day complaining loudly about how they haven't been called all month, and HAVE TO fly this one trip.

Save it.

 

[Mach85ER]

StraaightTaalk,

Would you accept access to the cockpit jumpseat provided you ride at the discretion of the Captain? That means despite your D pass status and W-pass in hand, you could be left on the jetbridge due to a simple "not today" from the Captain?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

StraaightTaalk,

Would you accept access to the cockpit jumpseat provided you ride at the discretion of the Captain? That means despite your D pass status and W-pass in hand, you could be left on the jetbridge due to a simple "not today" from the Captain?

That's the way it is today amongst the pilots anyway. I have seen several scab pilots from other airlines denied the jumpseat by Captains who carry the ALPA National Scab List.

The Captain always has the final authority on who rides that jumpseat. In practice, the above scenario, and similar ones, do happen, although not very frequently. Your question reflects today's reality, as well, in that a Captain can simply say, "Not today," to a fellow pilot.