We all must bow down before the sky gods!

[jetmechjer]

Sue Gordon, an American spokeswoman, says that most of the demands were unrelated to the route and should be dealt with in broader talks that are going on.

Executives also have to consider the effect on other employees. How are they supposed to justify special treatment for pilots beyond their superior pay, benefits and work hours?

“Rank has its privileges,†says the APA’s Overman.

In its proposal to management, the pilots union objects to the “one size fits all mentality†that it says has governed employee relations since the late 1990s. It wants pilots to be “recognized leaders within the airline.â€

“This no-cost item is an appropriate return to past practice and serves as an appropriate recognition of pilots’ command positions and responsibility,†the proposal says.

No cost?

AMR has about 9,000 pilots, including 2,800 on furlough. Imagine the cost of appeasing the other 70,000-plus workers who figure they’re getting the short end of the stick.
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[jetmechjer]

Wow I hear crickets chirping in this thread!! Seems everyone is afraid to reply to such a touchy subject.
OR ARE THEY AFRAID THEY MAY ANGER THE SKY GODS???

 

[L1011Ret]

Wow I hear crickets chirping in this thread!! Seems everyone is afraid to reply to such a touchy subject.
OR ARE THEY AFRAID THEY MAY ANGER THE SKY GODS???

You do not understand, they are deprived!!! They should be special, you do not see that either. Shame on you.

 

[eolesen]

 

[A/C FIXER]

You do not understand, they are deprived!!! They should be special, you do not see that either. Shame on you.

Well we've always been told that "We don't see the big picture"
Just remember that "Without maintenance, pilots are nothing more that pedestrians with leather jackets and cool sunglasses"

 

[ILS2MINIMUMS]

Well we've always been told that "We don't see the big picture"
Just remember that "Without maintenance, pilots are nothing more that pedestrians with leather jackets and cool sunglasses"

I don't think pilots have the big picture either...

Just remember, "without pilots to break stuff, mechanics are nothing more than owners of giant tool boxes with nothing to work on..."

We need you, you need us... The only difference is, I have a true respect for you and a sincere appreciation for what you do...

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I don't think pilots have the big picture either...

Just remember, "without pilots to break stuff, mechanics are nothing more than owners of giant tool boxes with nothing to work on..."

We need you, you need us... The only difference is, I have a true respect for you and a sincere appreciation for what you do...

Quite right. We are all in the same boat. But some of the pilots seem to think that they are entitled to all the benefits of management while professing to be union members.

Their ploy to have higher pass travel priority than the rest of us is an example.

As the head of the APA {Agricultural Pig Association) said in Animal Farm, "We are all equal, but some of us are more equal than the others."

 

[jetmechjer]

I don't think pilots have the big picture either...

Just remember, "without pilots to break stuff, mechanics are nothing more than owners of giant tool boxes with nothing to work on..."

We need you, you need us... The only difference is, I have a true respect for you and a sincere appreciation for what you do...

Then where did our cockpit jumpseat authorization go? We can run them up to more than take off power and taxi them at any airport but can't sit in the cockpit as a last resort even when trying to make it to see our dieing father! True story the seat left empty and the mechanic at the gate till the next day!!! SAD SAD SAD!!! :down: :down: :down:

 

[ILS2MINIMUMS]

Then where did our cockpit jumpseat authorization go? We can run them up to more than take off power and taxi them at any airport but can't sit in the cockpit as a last resort even when trying to make it to see our dieing father! True story the seat left empty and the mechanic at the gate till the next day!!! SAD SAD SAD!!! :down: :down: :down:

I couldn't agree more...

I've had station managers and interns in the jumpseat on revenue flights, but the only mechanics I've ever had there have been on test flights... Sad indeed. Mechanics and Flight Attendants are no-brainers for immediate cockpit jumpseat access. As far as I'm concerned, ramp personnel and agents have all passed background checks and should be allowed to ride up there too...

Even if it were permitted by the FAR's, AMR would never let it happen because it would go against their mandate to rule by division... If everyone got to ride in the cockpit, it would go a long way toward bringing the animosity levels between work groups down...

 

[jetmechjer]

I couldn't agree more...

I've had station managers and interns in the jumpseat on revenue flights, but the only mechanics I've ever had there have been on test flights... Sad indeed. Mechanics and Flight Attendants are no-brainers for immediate cockpit jumpseat access. As far as I'm concerned, ramp personnel and agents have all passed background checks and should be allowed to ride up there too...

Even if it were permitted by the FAR's, AMR would never let it happen because it would go against their mandate to rule by division... If everyone got to ride in the cockpit, it would go a long way toward bringing the animosity levels between work groups down...

As far as the FAR's go the mechanic is allowed in the cockpit! We have looked into it! It is the pilots who are stopping us from having full access as we did before
9-11. The company tries to shove us in the cockpit when ever we are on a field trip or on the clock!! We know that as Mr Overly put it "RANK HAS IS PRIVELEDGES" but there should be no problem with us useing it if no other AA pilot want it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

I don't think it's fair to label ALL pilots as elitists. I am sure there are many pilots who do not agree with their union leadership's statements. Just like we do not agree with the TWU leaderships statements and philosophy.

 

[ILS2MINIMUMS]

As far as the FAR's go the mechanic is allowed in the cockpit! We have looked into it! It is the pilots who are stopping us from having full access as we did before
9-11. The company tries to shove us in the cockpit when ever we are on a field trip or on the clock!! We know that as Mr Overly put it "RANK HAS IS PRIVELEDGES" but there should be no problem with us useing it if no other AA pilot want it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever did your checking should check here:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-....11&idno=14


The pilots aren't your problem... You didn't have full access prior to 9/11 either. But just to reiterate my previous post: I think you are deserving of the cockpit jumpseat, period.

On an unrelated note, I don't think a lot of guys have any idea what type of conversations our pilots have regarding mechanics... You are highly respected and appreciated. I don't recall EVER hearing a pilot with whom I've flown saying ANYTHING but positive things about a mechanic. And I mean EVER.

 

[alfista]

A couple points of ancient history, just to serve as an illustration of "some" pilots' attitudes...

1. Remember January 1997? AA's pilots were already the highest paid owrk-group at AA, and the highest-paid pilots in the industry... yet they voted DOWN a contract which would have increased their pay. I heard a number of pilots comment along the lines of "It's not about the money"... so what was it then? You want more power? Do you think that as pilots you should run the company?

2. A couple weeks before that vote, my wife and I were in the grocery store one evening, and she was asking me what the real issues were (ie, what did the pilots really want). Since I'm not a pilot, all I could tell her was what I had picked up through Jetwire, news media, or tribal communication. Well, a guy just in front of us apparently had his aft-looking radar on, because at one point he turned around (aggressively) to "join" our conversation (he wasn't invited) (but, hmmm, he was a pilot, I wonder if there is any pattern there...) Ok, I digress. He jumped in and absolutely told me "what-for" in regard to my dissapointment with what the AA pilots were up to (or at least what they were seemingly up to).

Why is this story significant? He had (apparently) his 7 or 8-ish-year-old son with him... the son was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of a UAL B727 on it... I asked the guy what he did, and surprise, surprise, he's a UAL B727 Flight Engineer. What I found significant, was that he was more interested in defending his "bretheren" at AA than seeing the opportunity for his company to make more money during an AA pilots-strike shutdown.

3. I used to go to church with an AA B757/B767 FO. One day after church, he asked me for my business card, just to have on file. I the felt obliged to ask for his, and he handed me an APA card. I said "No, you goof, give me your business card." He said, "That's it." I said, with emphasis, "No, I want your BUSINESS card." He said, with greater emphasis, "THAT IS MY BUSINESS CARD!" I said "Never mind, I don't want it." So... correct me if I'm wrong, all you pilots... does the APA give you a paycheck... or does AA??

4. Remember when we acquired Reno Air in 1997/8? It was an airline of 2000 employess (we had 96,000-ish), with 200 pilots (we had 10,000-ish). Did we acquire them for their staff? No. For their pilots? Nope. For their fleet of 27-ish MD80s and MD90s? Of course not... we acquired them for the gates and the north-south west coast routes. What's significant about this story? This event - adding this "overwhelming" force of 200 pilots to our ranks - was so scary to our pilots, that they felt obligated to stage an illegal sick-out one week in February 1998... for that week, AA had to cancel 1/2 of the scheduled flights... at a cost of $100 million. The company took the pilots to court and won... well, sorta won. The court ruled that the pilots had to reimburse the company $45.5 million (ok: they cost the company $100 and just have to pay back $45.5 mil? And the company "won"? Huh??). Ok, well, so what... the APA at the time had $39 million available. The story was, this was going to be the end of the APA (and yes, all of us were very excited about the possibility). But - this is just amazing to me - the company offered to forgive the debt if the pilots would just extend the existing contract..! When I first heard this, I figured they were talking about a lengthy extension - 6, 7, 8 years? Well at least 4 or 5, right? Nope. The extension was for ONE year. ONE YEAR. Are you kidding me?!? Surely they'll be happy and just shut up now.

Well I was wrong again.

Ok, these stories are from a few years back, and I'll bet others have other relevant tales to tell. And probably, I've missed a detail or two. But the point is still the point... and I think this last little ditty empahsizes it:

I don't remember the exact dates, but somewhere in the 97-98-99 time frame, the pilots wanted to get a new travel pass classification made available to them - a classification between "A" and "D"... this was so that the guys who lived in a city other than the one they were based out of, could get to their base more easily. Well guys, here's a thought: Why don't you do what the rest of have to do AND MOVE TO THE FREAKIN' CITY YOU'RE BASED OUT OF?!?!?!?

Final thought, as a caveat: There are some pilots who are ok... the test guys. I always enjoy working with them.

Ok, rant over.

Oh, by the way, I'm an engineer, not a mechanic.

 

[ILS2MINIMUMS]

I don't think it's fair to label ALL pilots as elitists. I am sure there are many pilots who do not agree with their union leadership's statements. Just like we do not agree with the TWU leaderships statements and philosophy.

I fit into that group... APA "leadership" is an embarrassment. I haven't worn a union pin since nearly half my pay disappeared in 2003. I won't wear it again until my union grows a sack and gets out of bed with Centerport.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Geeze! Can we limit the Latin to just a few words? That one really taxed me.

Oh, BTW, it's nequiquam