What's new

USAIR term sheet with TWU

I don't care for any CBA that has a term greater than 3 years. Given the increased size of the combined fleets, they will require a certain level of Mtc.....
Dont forget we are 4 years into this already, so we are looking at a 10 year deal.

The USAIR deal, since its off the March 22 offer, is 7% less on the hourly wage than the "rediculously bad" AA offer.

The 401k contribution is 2.5 points less or around 45% less than the crappy AA match. You would have to work a lot of OT to make up the difference.
 
Furlough Protection. For the two year period following the Closing Date, the Company will maintain (i.e., protect from furlough) those approximately 4,500 AMTs at TULE.

Sounds to me like US will only protect the jobs in TULE for a couple years. How many could be laid off after 2 years is only anybody's guess....



Line AMT Jobs Saved. Under the M&R 1113 Proposal, there would also be a headcount reduction of approximately 425 AMTs working in line maintenance. This Term Sheet modifies the M&R 1113 Proposal by reducing that headcount reduction by 250. The Company will place these 250 AMTs in line maintenance operations at locations to be determined by the Company.

Seems that 250 Line AMT's could be moved to a station at the companies choice.


The line jobs "saved" is simply dues preservation by the International, my guess is at least 500 guys from just the line will attrit out within a year. We are going to end up agreeing to concessions so AA can hire off the street. Its a win win for the company, they get everyone to take concessions then when they hire people that lowers the average wage as well. Sorry, I think its more humane not to let new hires get caught up in this crap. Keep this a job worth coming back to.

The language in either deal would allow more than half the work to be outsourced, if Taesl is closed. So we are still looking at them eliminating 4500 or more jobs if they want to. Here we are "saving jobs" with concessions while AAR is saying there is nobody out there willing or able to do the work.
 
Dont forget we are 4 years into this already, so we are looking at a 10 year deal.

The USAIR deal, since its off the March 22 offer, is 7% less on the hourly wage than the "rediculously bad" AA offer.

The 401k contribution is 2.5 points less or around 45% less than the crappy AA match. You would have to work a lot of OT to make up the difference.

When will we know what the company and the TWU "agreed to".......will you be able to say if you recommend it or not?
 
When will we know what the company and the TWU "agreed to".......will you be able to say if you recommend it or not?
I got the same info that was released today.

What I recommend is we focus on whats in front of us and vote NO. If we really had a Labor movement in this country, upon rejection the International would file with the NMB for a release, make a lot of noise about it too, better yet get the support of the AFL-CIO, tell the NMB they are giving them 30 days notice that we will resort to self help if they do not release us. Have huge demonstrations and press conferences with the leaders of all airline unions citing the abuse of extended negotiations, rubber stamp BK courts and the inequity of 1167. No contract-No peace. (Much the way Mike Quill told the Judge 40 years ago) 4 years, Sect 1113 and two rejected deals, offers that management admits are "rediculously bad" what possible reason could there be to assume that we can get a fair deal through the current process? Its obvious that the company does not want a deal. This way if they abrogate, we do whatever we need to do-level playing field. Cant disrupt Commerce because hey allowed too much consolidation? Then maybe a PEB where we all get to present our case where the objective is to settle a dispute not jam something down the workers throats.

But alas that would require real action, it would mean that our leaders would really be putting themselves at risk, better to sit back, collect their executive like salaries and blame the decline of the working class on Republicans and an apathetic membership. How many times was Debs, Harry Bridges or Mike Quill arrested? How often did they bring deals to their members without an endorsement one way or anther? Did all the caliber of the members change or did the caliber of leaders change? Odds tend to favor the conclusion that it was the leaders that changed, they got very comfortable in suits and first Class.

Watch what you get in the mail with your ballott. It will be a soft cell YES plug. You will get half the story, one that makes make it seem like not fighting is the better choice. To me its "take a position and be willing to support it", if you truly feel that we should roll over and accept this crap then go ahead and say so, be prepared to defend that position, LEAD, thats what Leaders do. I heard one guy say "I aint going to tell my members how to vote" well thats a cop out, its a soft endorsement for YES but not having the courage to say so because when guys realize how bad things are they can turn around and say "Dont blame me, I didnt recommend a YES vote". Could you imagine a General leading his troops into battle the way todays labor leaders do. "Here are your choices guys, do what you want to do, I'll lead you into battle, if you really want me to, but some of you are going to die and we will probably lose, so let me know what you want to do.

Voting YES lets the Leaders off the hook, it allows them to continue to get $600/year off you without getting what Union members should expect from their dues- better wages and benefits, Jet Blue and Delta both non-union and both make more than we do!


USAIR, nice diversion, better than what AA has offered in some respects, but not exactly desirable, they are only the second worst carrier to work for, if AA and USAIR were to merge they would be the worst and our position would not have changed. The resultant carrier, counting Eagle, which is really a paralell operation, would be around 500 planes bigger than any other carrier. It would not be good for airline workers as a whole, we really need to start thinking if AAs survival is good for our long term sucess. While I think a change in administartion is warranted unless we can get Herb Kelleher its six of one half a dozen of the other.

The decision is out of our hands anyway, lets just make sure we do not get pinned down to a crappy deal for another 6 years. In the time it takes to go from kindergarten to Grad school our take home puy would not have increased a penny if we agree to this. VOTE NO.
 
Remarkable, stood five feet from a section chairman this afternoon listening to him telling another clerk "There was no agreement signed by the TWU with USAirways".It's really comical because he got agitated when pressed on the matter.

Yea Russ isn't what i'd call a level headed informed guy.
 
Take it for what its worth, but I heard 2-3% paycut, EWR and BDL closing in 501,12% increase in medical coverage costs,some other muttered mumbo jumbo...typical TWU tap dancing.

I'll be shocked if the pay cut was that low. I was expecting to hear the FSCs were going down to $15-16 an hour to save jobs.
 
The decision is out of our hands anyway, lets just make sure we do not get pinned down to a crappy deal for another 6 years. In the time it takes to go from kindergarten to Grad school our take home puy would not have increased a penny if we agree to this. VOTE NO.

Bob I respect your opinion so I ask does it really matter which way people vote if the method is an electronic vote? It will be easy to doctor up and make it a real squeaker like 2003. The company is going to lock us up first to lessen the impact on the other two unions that dont roll over for them like the twu international does. The international isn't going to leave it up to us hence the electronic vote.
 
I'll be shocked if the pay cut was that low. I was expecting to hear the FSCs were going down to $15-16 an hour to save jobs.
That is what I meant in another thread. At what point does the cut to save stop?
 
I got the same info that was released today.

What I recommend is we focus on whats in front of us and vote NO. If we really had a Labor movement in this country, upon rejection the International would file with the NMB for a release, make a lot of noise about it too, better yet get the support of the AFL-CIO, tell the NMB they are giving them 30 days notice that we will resort to self help if they do not release us. Have huge demonstrations and press conferences with the leaders of all airline unions citing the abuse of extended negotiations, rubber stamp BK courts and the inequity of 1167. No contract-No peace. (Much the way Mike Quill told the Judge 40 years ago) 4 years, Sect 1113 and two rejected deals, offers that management admits are "rediculously bad" what possible reason could there be to assume that we can get a fair deal through the current process? Its obvious that the company does not want a deal. This way if they abrogate, we do whatever we need to do-level playing field. Cant disrupt Commerce because hey allowed too much consolidation? Then maybe a PEB where we all get to present our case where the objective is to settle a dispute not jam something down the workers throats.

But alas that would require real action, it would mean that our leaders would really be putting themselves at risk, better to sit back, collect their executive like salaries and blame the decline of the working class on Republicans and an apathetic membership. How many times was Debs, Harry Bridges or Mike Quill arrested? How often did they bring deals to their members without an endorsement one way or anther? Did all the caliber of the members change or did the caliber of leaders change? Odds tend to favor the conclusion that it was the leaders that changed, they got very comfortable in suits and first Class.

Watch what you get in the mail with your ballott. It will be a soft cell YES plug. You will get half the story, one that makes make it seem like not fighting is the better choice. To me its "take a position and be willing to support it", if you truly feel that we should roll over and accept this crap then go ahead and say so, be prepared to defend that position, LEAD, thats what Leaders do. I heard one guy say "I aint going to tell my members how to vote" well thats a cop out, its a soft endorsement for YES but not having the courage to say so because when guys realize how bad things are they can turn around and say "Dont blame me, I didnt recommend a YES vote". Could you imagine a General leading his troops into battle the way todays labor leaders do. "Here are your choices guys, do what you want to do, I'll lead you into battle, if you really want me to, but some of you are going to die and we will probably lose, so let me know what you want to do.

Voting YES lets the Leaders off the hook, it allows them to continue to get $600/year off you without getting what Union members should expect from their dues- better wages and benefits, Jet Blue and Delta both non-union and both make more than we do!


USAIR, nice diversion, better than what AA has offered in some respects, but not exactly desirable, they are only the second worst carrier to work for, if AA and USAIR were to merge they would be the worst and our position would not have changed. The resultant carrier, counting Eagle, which is really a paralell operation, would be around 500 planes bigger than any other carrier. It would not be good for airline workers as a whole, we really need to start thinking if AAs survival is good for our long term sucess. While I think a change in administartion is warranted unless we can get Herb Kelleher its six of one half a dozen of the other.

The decision is out of our hands anyway, lets just make sure we do not get pinned down to a crappy deal for another 6 years. In the time it takes to go from kindergarten to Grad school our take home puy would not have increased a penny if we agree to this. VOTE NO.

Bob, I disagreed with you on the VOTE NO T/A video because I had strong doubts that we would obtain a better offer.

For the record, I agree with you on this VOTE NO!

Not that my opinion matters to anyone else, but this is total BS and needs to stop.
 
Topic has drifted off the original post ---- how many of you would vote yes on the term sheets from US if that was your only offer to consider?
 
Topic has drifted off the original post ---- how many of you would vote yes on the term sheets from US if that was your only offer to consider?
F NO chap 7 is good for me.

and I have 15 yrs with AAhell
 
Lets start an IAM card drive this way we will be ready when the time comes... 😀
 
That is what I meant in another thread. At what point does the cut to save stop?

Buck, I hate to say it but I don't think it will ever stop from both the company and the TWU. The company knows guys will do anything to keep their jobs. The guys showed it with the 2003 givebacks. As for the TWU, they haven't and never will be a real union. The only local in the TWU with any nuts is local 100. I'm not trying to be a "Richard" in my reply but there is life after AA.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top