MDA...what a joke. Talked to a friend of mine who is J4J guy could not believe how many wimps there are over at mainline. They drop all the grievances and give their fellow pilots who are on the streets AMR Eagle wages for 58K a year (MAX). Piss on you mainline pilots for eating your young. YOUR DAY IS COMING REAL SOON!!! You will feel their pain when nothing but LUV is shown to you.
Usair Pilots Screw Over Fellow (junior) Pilots
- Thread starter boeing787
- Start date
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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- #2
boeing,
Technically, it was the lame-duck MEC that settled the MDA grievences, not the pilot group as a whole. Likewise, all the concessions to this point were MEC approved, not voted on by the rank and file.
That said, if there had been a vote it may have turned out the same way. Back in Wolf's time, I remember flying with more than a few who said "Let's just give him what he wants so we can get on with the turbogrowth.".
Jim
Technically, it was the lame-duck MEC that settled the MDA grievences, not the pilot group as a whole. Likewise, all the concessions to this point were MEC approved, not voted on by the rank and file.
That said, if there had been a vote it may have turned out the same way. Back in Wolf's time, I remember flying with more than a few who said "Let's just give him what he wants so we can get on with the turbogrowth.".
Jim
WOpropTrash
Member
- Mar 18, 2003
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What goes around, comes around.
This reminds me of the attitude of mainline US Air many years ago, when the wholly owneds wanted RJ's to replace their turboprops, like everyone else was doing.
The mainline attitude was, you guys aren't jet qualified. Any jets on the property must be flown by mainline pilots. Well you guys enjoy what you've created!
It looks like we will all be out of work soon. It's almost worth it to see you guys reap what you sowed!
Oh, do I sound like I still carry a grudge? See ya' in the unemployment line. It's OK, my kids are already in public school. I don't have as far to go to the bottom, as you do.
This reminds me of the attitude of mainline US Air many years ago, when the wholly owneds wanted RJ's to replace their turboprops, like everyone else was doing.
The mainline attitude was, you guys aren't jet qualified. Any jets on the property must be flown by mainline pilots. Well you guys enjoy what you've created!
It looks like we will all be out of work soon. It's almost worth it to see you guys reap what you sowed!
Oh, do I sound like I still carry a grudge? See ya' in the unemployment line. It's OK, my kids are already in public school. I don't have as far to go to the bottom, as you do.
mwereplanes
Senior
- Jan 21, 2004
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- 0
It is truly disgraceful. What I can't understand however is how the screwees keep coming back for more. You guys got nailed by the company, the senior guys, and the union. Some have been furloughed 2 or 3 times. Yet, you come back and work for MDA or worse, Mesa. Why? With the education and the intelligence you have why would you keep coming back? You can make 58K selling cars or insurance. With benefits. I know 4 furloughed guys doing just that. And they're home every night!
There is no future here for furloughed pilots. There is likely no future here for active pilots unless you are above number 500 and move on to an acquiring carrier. Siegel can dictate MDA (truly an alter ego airline) because he knows guys will line up to fly. Just like Mesa. Why stay in this business at this company after having been poked in the eye with a sharp stick over and over? It's disgraceful what the union has done I fully agree. But it is also disgraceful to keep coming back for more.
mr
There is no future here for furloughed pilots. There is likely no future here for active pilots unless you are above number 500 and move on to an acquiring carrier. Siegel can dictate MDA (truly an alter ego airline) because he knows guys will line up to fly. Just like Mesa. Why stay in this business at this company after having been poked in the eye with a sharp stick over and over? It's disgraceful what the union has done I fully agree. But it is also disgraceful to keep coming back for more.
mr
DorkDriver
Advanced
- Aug 28, 2002
- 128
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Looking at the 2003 Eagle pay chart, 1st year captain pay was 57.29 per hour and thats where the $58,000 is coming from for captains during year one. The FO pay at Eagle tops out at $35.75 per hour and thats where the $35,000 max per year FO pay comes into play.
Three questions.
1. Does everyone start at MDA with zero longevity for pay?
2. Do mainline work rules apply for pilots?
3. Where did everybody get the idea that captain pay was capped at $58,000?
Three questions.
1. Does everyone start at MDA with zero longevity for pay?
2. Do mainline work rules apply for pilots?
3. Where did everybody get the idea that captain pay was capped at $58,000?
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
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Makes good cannon fodder. As usual, the facts get swayed to suit a personal need. And many here feel a need to demonize the ALPA mainline MEC. Twelve men doing the best they can in a truly awful situation. I personally wouldn't trade places with any of them. Each man represents a base where 1/3 of their constituants love them, 1/3 hate them, the rest don't care.DorkDriver said:
A very difficult situation at best.
A320 Driver :unsure:
BoeingBoy
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- Nov 9, 2003
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DorkDriver,
To answer your questions as best I can....
1) For pilots, all start as "new hires". F/O's do start at top-of-scale (5 year) pay.
2) Not unless Eagle work rules just happen to be the same as mainline U.
3) One of the articles on the agreement mentioned that the Captain pay was "capped" at approximately $58,000. Just another case of the reporter getting it wrong (I hope).
Jim
To answer your questions as best I can....
1) For pilots, all start as "new hires". F/O's do start at top-of-scale (5 year) pay.
2) Not unless Eagle work rules just happen to be the same as mainline U.
3) One of the articles on the agreement mentioned that the Captain pay was "capped" at approximately $58,000. Just another case of the reporter getting it wrong (I hope).
Jim
bigbusdrvr
Senior
- Mar 2, 2003
- 366
- 12
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- #9
Just to clear up a few points.BoeingBoy said:
1) They would be new hires anywhere else without some getting to be c/o from the start, they don't have to be interviewed for the position, they can even elect to pass it up and stay on furlough and thereby take what ever other better job offers they get till mainline recall.
2) Work rules are same as american eagle, yes same work rules that American airlines pilots wanted with their flow thru agreement!
3) Starting pay with MDA is approx 58,000 c/o 35,000 f/o, to go up incrementally as per the American eagle contract.
4) So is it good (no) is it the best we can do with a horrendous situation ( yes)
5) the only reason other mainline groups dislike it is they see a possible survival of UAIR, someone is gonna fall,liquidate, they want it to be UAIR. Not them!!
BoeingBoy
Veteran
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bigbusdrvr,
1) Yes, they would be new hires if they went anywhere else - they would be going to a different company, not working for the same company that furloughed them.
3) Captain pay will go up incrementally with longetivity at MDA (hence the erroneous press reports of a $58,000 cap). However, F/O's start at the top of the pay scale (5 year pay), hence there are no incremental longetivity raises for them.
Jim
1) Yes, they would be new hires if they went anywhere else - they would be going to a different company, not working for the same company that furloughed them.
3) Captain pay will go up incrementally with longetivity at MDA (hence the erroneous press reports of a $58,000 cap). However, F/O's start at the top of the pay scale (5 year pay), hence there are no incremental longetivity raises for them.
Jim
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #12
Don't you get it. They lower everybody's wages with this kind of ####...Yeah I gotta call it for what it is. USAIR is racing to the bottom. LUV is gonna be the torpedo is my prediction. They didn't let anybody vote is the most insidious and disgusting thing about it. Eating their young again...history proves it time and time again with this particualar pilot group.
jimntx
Veteran
I had no idea the pay was that low! Good lord, the AE flight attendants start at $17.64/hr.flyin2low said:
bigbusdrvr
Senior
- Mar 2, 2003
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- #14
Yea I get it!! They vote with thier feet, If they don't like it, don't take it!! This is america nothing is forced upon them!! What part of this do you not understand!!boeing787 said:
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
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Boeing,BoeingBoy said:
Your point on issue #1 is a significant point, and one that was argued by the AFA MAA committee for our f/as.
OUR f/as are NOT probationary, nor are they NEW hires. Big difference and one that ALPA committee should have argued and settled with managment. Obviously, they did not.
For us, it was never mentioned that it was some kind of "soft landing" for furloughees. Mangement states they mentioned that, but not to OUR group.
I am disappointed in ALPA for not arguing that point much stronger, that their furloughed pilots ARE NOT NEW HIRES OR PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES.
The pilots deserved much better. JUST MHO.
bigbusdriver,
What I personally understand, is that YOU are not one of them! That is perfectly, and crystal clear. With your attitude, why in the hell would anyone want to pay dues.
