US/DL LGA/DCA Slot Swap Deal

[FWAAA]

FWIW, you can fly nonstop LAX-DCA today on AS. I realize no other airline can offer this service, but it is possible. Ditto with SEA-DCA. SFO-DCA would be nice, too. UA applied but lost the application to a carrier flying a different route, I think SLC-DCA on DL.

True, AS has a single daily flight to DCA. Nobody is allowed to fly LAX-LGA nonstop (except, of course, on Saturdays). I'm not talking about a single airline flying a single daily flight - I'm talking about allowing any airline that wants to with sufficient frequencies to be useful. IMO, allowing more nonstops from outside the perimeters would be a much better use of the scarce resources of LGA and DCA than permitting US and DL to accumulate enough slots to run connecting hubs at DCA and LGA. I understand that some US and DL constituents might disagree.

 

[SS255]

True, AS has a single daily flight to DCA. Nobody is allowed to fly LAX-LGA nonstop (except, of course, on Saturdays). I'm not talking about a single airline flying a single daily flight - I'm talking about allowing any airline that wants to with sufficient frequencies to be useful. IMO, allowing more nonstops from outside the perimeters would be a much better use of the scarce resources of LGA and DCA than permitting US and DL to accumulate enough slots to run connecting hubs at DCA and LGA. I understand that some US and DL constituents might disagree.

IIRC, AS was given a special exemption to the perimeter rule to operate this flight. I think it was a political maneuver, but I do not remember any of the details.

 

[FWAAA]

If I remember correctly, TWA won the right to fly LAX-DCA nonstop but one asset the feds wouldn't let AA keep when AA bought the TWA assets was that beyond-perimeter flight, so AS applied for and won the right. I don't recall all the details of the political maneuvering that set up the beyond-perimeter flight for TWA, but someone else might.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/03/justice-department-likes-slot.html


Justice Department likes slot divestitures at New York, Washington airports
4:06 PM Fri, Mar 26, 2010 | Permalink
Terry Maxon/Reporter
The U.S. Department of Justice has endorsed the idea that US Airways and Delta Air Lines must give up slots at New York LaGuardia Airport and Washington National Airport to gain approval for their proposed deal.

In a filing, Justice backed the Federal Aviation Administration's requirement that US Airways and Delta be forced to give up 20 pairs of landing and takeoff slots at LaGuardia and 14 pairs at Washington National.

That's out of 140 pairs that Delta would pick up from US Airways at LaGuardia and the 42 that US Airways would pick up from Delta at Washington.

 

[jcw]

The good news is they sold slots to JB and when US merges with JB they will get them back.

 

[signals]

The good news is they sold slots to JB and when US merges with JB they will get them back.

Yeah, keep holding your breath on that one! B6 is the lesser of the 2 evils and perhaps US is eying JFK. A possible merger is with Delta, but let's not start that

 

[signals]

From my understanding, the DOT still has to approve the deal. In the meantime WN isn't going down without a fight. Of course US and DAL say that it either goes through or the deal is off. I think Southwest is hoping for that to happen.

I believe LUV knew Delta and US Airways were going to pull something since it was still aggressively trying to go after US customers in Philly! Perhaps it was a warning that if the deal goes through it will Target Philly h34r:

 

[phasersonstun2]

From my understanding, the DOT still has to approve the deal. In the meantime WN isn't going down without a fight. Of course US and DAL say that it either goes through or the deal is off. I think Southwest is hoping for that to happen.

I believe LUV knew Delta and US Airways were going to pull something since it was still aggressively trying to go after US customers in Philly! Perhaps it was a warning that if the deal goes through it will Target Philly h34r:

No one is afraid of WN anymore. Fire away.

 

[signals]

No one is afraid of WN anymore. Fire away.

I couldn't care less either way. I'm just giving my opinion on what I see. Still, the proof is in the pudding!

 

[BoeingBoy]

In the latest wrinkle, it appears that B6 has acquired 8 DCA slot pairs from AA, as well as asked for unused morning and late afternoon slots. All in addition to the 5 pairs proposed in the new slot swap deal between US & DL.

B6 Press Release

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

The DOT initially required US Airways to divest of 14 DCA slots for the Slot Swap to proceed. US Airways countered by reaching an agreement to provide JetBlue with 5 DCA slots. With JetBlue obtaining 8 DCA slots from American, JetBlue will obtain at least 13 DCA slots, which is 1 less than the number of slots the DOT required US Airways to divest. In addition, JetBlue is attempting to obtain even more DCA slots.

In a previous Crew News Session (January ???) Doug Parker indicated US Airways would obtain additional gates from American in DCA. Once Doug mentioned this Lyle Hogg interrupted him and he said that no agreement had been reached between the two companies. In my opinion, today's announcement that American has reached an agreement to provide 8 DCA slots to JetBlue will provide US Airways with at least one and possibly two or a shared gate from American in DCA (if the Delta-US Airways revised Slot Swap is approved). US Airways recently obtained gate 26 from Frontier with the company's relocation to DCA's Banjo terminal and now US Airways could obtain enough gates to operate the new DCA slots that may be obtained from Delta.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[john john]

The DOT initially required US Airways to divest of 14 DCA slots for the Slot Swap to proceed. US Airways countered by reaching an agreement to provide JetBlue with 5 DCA slots. With JetBlue obtaining 8 DCA slots from American, JetBlue will obtain at least 13 DCA slots, which is 1 less than the number of slots the DOT required US Airways to divest. In addition, JetBlue is attempting to obtain even more DCA slots.

In a previous Crew News Session (January ???) Doug Parker indicated US Airways would obtain additional gates from American in DCA. Once Doug mentioned this Lyle Hogg interrupted him and he said that no agreement had been reached between the two companies. In my opinion, today's announcement that American has reached an agreement to provide 8 DCA slots to JetBlue will provide US Airways with at least one and possibly two or a shared gate from American in DCA (if the Delta-US Airways revised Slot Swap is approved). US Airways recently obtained gate 26 from Frontier with the company's relocation to DCA's Banjo terminal and now US Airways could obtain enough gates to operate the new DCA slots that may be obtained from Delta.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

And this entire giveaway is a good thing for short and long term US as a whole

 

[Poug Darker]

And this entire giveaway is a good thing for short and long term US as a whole

US who? US mainline? US Express? US executives? US investors?
It will certainly be good for the execs and the investors will be pleased that Doug can get a deal done....hey maybe the stock will go to the double digits again.
It will be great for the express carriers that will garner all the flying, at cost + 8% profit margin. Don't worry, mainline will provide the ticketing, reservations, baggage handling, gate space, gate agents, and fuel.
But it will certainly not be good for mainline aircrews. No growth here. DCA is not a hub, but has strong O&D. Will mainline need larger aircraft or more frequency for its destinations as a result of this deal? No.
Will mainline see an increase in staffing or block hours as a result of this deal? No.
Could mainline aircrews see furloughs as a result of this deal? Yes.
So, in a nutshell, the flying will be outsourced, the potential rewards of the additional slots going to the execs, the express carriers and their employees, with the mainline employees taking the hit (once again).
All you west folks, listen up, cause this is how its been for a decade on the east side now. And you wonder why things are the way they are....

 

[USA320Pilot]

Poug,

Poug said: "But it will certainly not be good for mainline aircrews. No growth here. DCA is not a hub, but has strong O&D. Will mainline need larger aircraft or more frequency for its destinations as a result of this deal? No."

USA320Pilot comments: Poug, I believe there will be additional DCA mainline ASMs for two reasons.

1. When the original Delta-US Airways Slot Swap was announced US Airways said, "By adding 42 new peak-day departures at DCA, we will connect the nation’s capital to more small, medium, and large communities across the country. This includes adding 15 new, daily destinations to our DCA schedule including eight routes that currently have no daily nonstop service to DCA on any airline. We plan to cover all of the DCA destinations that Delta decides to discontinue as a result of this transaction.
Additionally, we’ll be adding seats, without increasing congestion, in one of the busiest airspaces in the world by significantly expanding our use of larger dual-class jets by nearly 50 percent. And to manage this increase in service, we’ll be creating approximately 100 new jobs at DCA and across the new destinations we plan to serve from DCA."

US Airways indicated the DCA expansion will expand the use of dual-class jets (first class and coach). Unless there is an Express aircraft configured to dual-class service, this additional capacity would have to be flown byu mainline aircraft with dual-class service.

2. I have been told by Station Management personnel the original plan was to split the 42 slots obtained from Delta with 30 flown by the Mainline and 12 by Express companies.

With the revised agreement and only 37 slot pairs being obtained, the Mainline/Express split will be different; however, US Airways indicated much of the flying will be done with dual-class service. I suppose US Airways could add first class to express operations; however, that would be a costly modification.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[FutureUScapt]

2. I have been told by Station Management personnel the original plan was to split the 42 slots obtained from Delta with 30 flown by the Mainline and 12 by Express companies.

I'd be very skeptical of that comment. Take a look at the 15 new destinations US "intends" to serve from DCA and see how many of those you think would warrant mainline service (aside from MIA, I would say none). So even if each of those destinations was only served once daily, that'd be a minimum of 14 Express departures. Now that's not to say that current Express departures at DCA couldn't be upgraded to mainline (DFW would be a top candidate, IMO)

With the revised agreement and only 37 slot pairs being obtained, the Mainline/Express split will be different; however, US Airways indicated much of the flying will be done with dual-class service. I suppose US Airways could add first class to express operations; however, that would be a costly modification.

A retrofit may be expensive, but F on RJs is fastly becoming the industry norm. In fact, with AA and DLs announcement to put F on the CR7s, US will be the last major airline to not have an F product on the 70-86 seat RJs.