US Airways lines up narrowbodies

[Singleflyer]

Since I drink my coffee black this creamer is a non issue for me. However I saw a t-shirt in a Vermont diner over the weekend that I think fits here, even thoug it was reffering to the butter vs margerine debate.

"I trust cows over chemists, for my food."

 

[etops1]

do you like the stuff? if you say you do, then you are just sucking up...for you, the stuff is a mess. Have you had any pax rip it open and the dust goes everywhere? Have you tried to wipe that stuff up?

to me, the switch to powdered creamer represents Tempe's lack of care for the customer and their continued degradation of the FC (well, what used to be FC) product. it shows that that some idiot reads a spreadsheet without thinking about the impact of a stupid decision beyond saving a penny or two. Have I encountered powdered creamer before? Sure, I have. But, what has Tempe done?

Shall I remind you again???? Degradation of the coffee product, No glassware (broken that promise a bazillion times), degradation of the snack basket to generic snacks and little rotating, degradation of the wines offered in FC, terrible meals in FC, taking out of closets in FC, limiting overhead space in FC, and drumroll please....the switch to powdered creamer...I'm sure the next change will be something that none of us even considered that will save them half a penny per customers that fly on Fridays and Tuesdays.
And, what irritates me more is that The Divine Miss Sherri I don't want powdered creamer in MY coffee Shamblin thinks that HP's, I mean, US's customers prefer powdered creamer.

ok man, that's all i needed to know. and no i do not like it. and i have to agree with you. it is cheap . i hate serving it. i even go through the whole gallley tryinig to find the mino moo's to give to the pax. but i if i ever have you on a flt. i will be sure to seve you all the powdered creamer you desire just to f with you cause you love it so much lol. just kidding , i will give you the mini moo's as well.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Since I drink my coffee black this creamer is a non issue for me. However I saw a t-shirt in a Vermont diner over the weekend that I think fits here, even thoug it was reffering to the butter vs margerine debate.

"I trust cows over chemists, for my food."

I'm like you. My saying is that I love my coffee like I love my women... strong and black. :groovy:

 

[hublablebla]

Just a couple days ago I served someone (Chairman, no less) coffee with half&half and he asked me if I had any powdered cream.

 

[LD3]

Airbus has scrapped the winglet program for the A320.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the 330 comes w/ winglets and the smaller bus' use sails instead of winglets?

 

[barbeetantrums]

"I trust cows over chemists, for my food."

Anymore, cows are pretty much a chemistry set on hooves. Antibiotics, hormones... Why do you think 10 year old girls now have 38Ds?

 

[US1YFARE]

Why do you think 10 year old girls now have 38Ds?

because they're HOT?

 

[Singleflyer]

I quess I should have been more specific, it was a "Natrual FOOD DINER." So those cows should not have the growth hormones.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Out of curiosity, why do you think the 330 comes w/ winglets and the smaller bus' use sails instead of winglets?

Can't answer that, but I'll use it as a jumping off point for something said earlier...

While Airbus has dropped the two A320 winglet designs they were testing, 1 internally designed and 1 designed by Winglet Technology, they are in discussions with Aviation Partners - the company that designed/builds the winglet kits for the 737/757.

Jim

 

[whlinder]

Boeing may have lost a customer.

USA320Pilot

When was the last time that US Airways ordered a Boeing aircraft?

You can't lose a customer that doesn't exist.

If US wants to replace their 737-300s and 400s, A320s and EMB-190s make the most sense today. It cuts out a fleet type, so when the next generation of narrowbodies become available it won't be a major issue to add a fleet type back.

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

If forced to guess, I'd say Airbus will get any order because -

1 - Parker seems to have a childish streak and will see ordering from Airbus as a way of "getting back" at Boeing.

2 - LCC already has Airbus narrow-bodies on order for delivery thru 2010. Why not just add to that order?

3 - I suspect Airbus will offer the lowest price, especially after their troubles of the last year or so.

The only potential problem is that the A320 is the by far the most popular airplane that Airbus produces and sales of Airbus widebodies has lagged. Meanwhile Airbus faces the costs of getting A380 production underway while losing money on them due to delay penalties and redesigning/producing the A350. So they may not be offering the deals they once were on the A320 since it is now their only cash cow.

Jim

Jim

All, very good guesses, Jim. Here are a few more things to consider:

1 -- DP has never really placed an Airbus a/c order, except for about 20 "growth" a/c for AWA that were added on in 2000'ish to the existing AWA purchase agreement. The airbus from the AwA side are the result of Bill Franke and others, not Doug. And needless to say, Doug had nothing to do with the Stephen Wolf-era USA Airbus.

That said, LCC is seriously looking at both the 737NG and A320 family of narrow-bodies as replacement aircraft. Seriously. Bean counters have run the numbers and last I heard (Oct 2006'ish), Boeing was "winning" because of a lower CASM. Airbus was planning to come back with their "high density" lay-out (like EasyJet) -- OMG! Heaven help us if we go that route!

The funny thing is that no matter how many numbers the bean counters crunch and which A/C "wins" according to them, their recommendation is considered, but then the real price negotiating begins.

2 -- All the Airbus that are on order were on order before the merger, except for the A321 options (10 net a/c) and are "replacements" for the 757 lease returns and othe a/c returns. And I believe that was to make the AWA A318 go away, entirely. And there's really not that many to be delivered, starting in July 2008 - Nov 2010 = 15 A321, 9 A320, and 13 A319.

If the A350 is still on order by LCC -- I don't think LCC could be forced to take the A350XWB -- then there are no A330 on order. If LCC cancels it's A350 order, completely, then there's still 10 A330-200s on order, I believe.

Why not just add to those orders? Because LCC wants better pricing, better support, an engine competition, and a better airplane than what is on order. To get all those things, the aircraft would actually end up costing more to add to the current order than to place a brand-new order.

3 -- Price isn't everything. USA and AWA have both learned that while Airbus may be cheap to buy, it's not necessarily the cheapest to maintain, nor operate.

From what I have seen, it really is a competition. And I really believe that more than narrow-bodies are at stake here... This is going to be very, very intersting.

Price is going to be very important, as well as "total cost of ownership", fuel efficiency, and delivery dates -- Airbus has a huge back-log of narrow-body orders (one of the reasons LCC does not start getting theirs 'til 2008). Boeing has a back-order, too.

Oh, and don't forget that LCC is allowed to outsource, what, 50% of the Airbus heavy-checks, but not Boeing per the IAM? Another influence to consider.

Again, it's going to be a very interesting decision.

 

[ussnark]

There are reports that Boeing, as chairman of Delta's creditors committee, sided with the Atlanta-based carrier during US Airways' hostile merger attempt.

Could Boeing have lost a potential customer and a future US Airways order with Airbus aircraft obtained instead of B737s? In the end, I believe US Airways' "executive suite" will place an order that makes the most economic sense, but it would not surprise me if the new jets will be A320 family.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

You are amazing, sir.

I understand you are chronologically known as a grownup, but your naivete continues to astonish me.

Aircraft orders of the magnitude you are talking about allow no room for childhood games like worrying about whether someone voted against you or not in a bid that had little to no intention of being consumated. I would say that Boeing, if you will, actually let USAirways off the hook, allowing Doogie to return to PHX with his "pride" intact.

While a credible excuse for some of the feeble-minded around here, a decision about aircraft selection will be based on numbers, not emotional "tit for tat" gaming. Sheesh, and you fly airplanes?

Aircraft orders are not simple capital cost affairs. The transaction will not be limited to items involving total cost, operational cost as well as ability to deliver. I believe, all other things being close to equal, the last item will be a major part the selection rationale, YMMV.

While the droolers among us may buy off on the "Boeing lost a customer because they voted against us" rationale, most thinkers here hope the reason will be because adults were in charge and not children.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Breath,

Interesting info, parts of which are very interesting...

- It was known no later than Jul 06 that the 737NG would have lower operating costs. It's my understanding that it was a 15-18% advantage. I can certainly understand how the DL merger attempt would have put an aircraft order on the back burner, though.

- From my reading of publicly available info, the "old" US A330-200 orders haven't been cancelled. The 1st Airbus agreement (during BK) postponed the delivery schedule and the 2nd (loan/A350 order) eliminated cancellation penalties on the A330's as long as predelivery payments for the A350's remained current.

- Obviously, no one can force US to buy any airplane, and the A350 is no exception. There would presumably be cancellation penalties involved, however. Airbus sticking the "XWB" on the end of the designator as a marketing gimmick is no different than Boeing refering to the current 737 as the 737NG. The type certificate will say A350 just like the one on a 737NG says 737. Of course, possible outs exist - not meeting performance guarantees, for example.

- Again only from public info, it appears that we have 20 A350's on order (with 10 convertible to A330's), 10 A330's, plus the orders for A320-series. It'll be interesting to see the annual report (hopefully within the next week or so) since it should have current info.

Personally, I've made no secret of my preference for Boeing so I hope any order goes to them. So far, however, I've seen no evidence to suggest that acquisition price doesn't trump long term operating benefits. 3 years ago I'd have said that that would favor Airbus, but with their recent problems (financial as well as operational as I touched on in the previous post) I'm not sure that's still the case.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Breath,

Interesting info, parts of which are very interesting...

- It was known no later than Jul 06 that the 737NG would have lower operating costs. It's my understanding that it was a 15-18% advantage. I can certainly understand how the DL merger attempt would have put an aircraft order on the back burner, though.


Jim

Just curious. A 15-18% advantage over what Jim? The A-320 series or the present 737 series? That is a pretty large percentage!

I know of your preference for the Boeing Jim, but I just can't get past those smug bas**rds blaming our pilots for the 427 accident and the footdragging they did regarding a fix for the rudder on the 73s.


A320 Driver B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

A 15-18% advantage over what Jim?

As I recall, it was -800 vs the 320.

Jim