Us Airways Flight Attendants Demand Detailed Busin

[diogenes]

In my opinion, the Flight Attendants will come to the table. However, if they do not they could see some painful changes implemented with "me too" clauses, pension termination, and significant grievance issues.

Moreover, there is not much the AFA will be able to do to stop the process.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Sir,

The moderators would not be content to put me in the cornfield with what I'd like to say - I'd be put on the back 40.

ALPA must have 'nads the size of a field mouse not to secure their loose cannons.

Or, is ALPA suggesting that the company take this course of action vis a vis AFA?

 

[usfliboi]

Yea, and YOU can't have it.

PIT you hit that nail on the head. You have every right to feel anyway you wanna and so do I. Ive never taken u up on how you feel. Your thoughts and opinions are yours and thats fine. Many who voted no the last go around will indeed vote no again. I pretty sure no one on here has anything close to the facts and never will. In time as it always has , it will become clear what we all have to do . At that point then we can talk facts. As of now there are no facts to discuss. What amazes me is thgat so many act as if their discussing facts when in FACT they are not. We will all get our say one way or the other. Thats the beauty of a voting system .

 

[PITbull]

In my opinion, the Flight Attendants will come to the table. However, if they do not they could see some painful changes implemented with "me too" clauses, pension termination, and significant grievance issues.

Moreover, there is not much the AFA will be able to do to stop the process.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Sir,

The moderators would not be content to put me in the cornfield with what I'd like to say - I'd be put on the back 40.

ALPA must have 'nads the size of a field mouse not to secure their loose cannons.

Or, is ALPA suggesting that the company take this course of action vis a vis AFA?

USA320 Pilot,

To answer where we are at in relation to your post....

1.AFA has unbelievable number and outrageious grievances pending arbitration...

2. We already suffer, and the more suffering the more we involve outside legal AND MEDIA, MEDIA, MEDIA!!!

3.And the only way they can f*%& with the pension that has a small liability, is in a distressed termiantion. If they involuntarily go into BK THEY WILL TAKE OURS AND EVERYTHING YOU HAVE LEFT.

So, we'd be even. Only difference in our pensions is that our level of benefit is already at where the "guarantee" is for the majority of the f/as. Your defined benefit was way, way higher than the PBGC guarantee.

You confuse AFA with ALPA as if the conditions are the same.

 

[AP Tech]

Well usfliboy, and I doubt you are who you pretend to be.......Fact #1 My paycheck is much lighter than it used to be, Fact #2 During the initial give back request Dave said that was what he needed to save the company, Fact #3 During the second give back request Dave said that was all he need to save the company, Fact #4 Dave once again is back after saying he would not be........Just how much are you willing to give back to? What is you limit? 20,30 40 % or what? Put a factual number in print.....

Another fact that is now airline history.........many carriers gave and gave and after all the giving the companies still went belly up and guess what the executives made out and the rest of the employee's got ********

Just one persons opinion and I am "confused" :huh:

 

[bobcat]

I've been reading posts on this board for a little over 2 yrs now, just absorbing opinions and info. Well, I couldn't stand it any more. I have to put my two-cents worth in. It's going to be a long one!

I have been with this co. for only 8 yrs but the difference from when I started to now is like night and day. I am just a "lowly" reissue agent and a member of the "GREAT" (cough cough) CWA. I left a career, in which I was totally burnt out, making almost double what I'm making now, to work for US. The only reason was to have a stable job with little pressure and not have to worry about looking for another job for the rest of my working days. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

Well, to get to the point.... The posts on this board are exactly as they have been for the past 2 yrs. Everyone puffs out their chests and says "the consession stand is closed" and stands up to our illustrious management until it gets close to "D-Day", then when the threats start (which they always do) mostly everyone starts to cower and back down. I really think this time will be no different than the other two times. All groups will cave and give Dave exactly what he wants without so much as a "decent" fight. What then will happen? The same as before. The employees will have less money in their paychecks, pay more for insurance, have less sick time and vacation and have more stringent work rules. Ten months from now we'll hear the same old sob story, "WE ARE IN TROUBLE! WE NEED MORE OR ELSE....!" By the time Dave and his cronies get done with us we may as well be working for McDonalds. I can't believe that this company's survival depends on us giving more consessions. Everyone is sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for this "inovative plan" and the consessions Dave is going to ask for from each group. I personally don't think there is a "great plan". Dave wants fast cash and he is waiting until the last minute to lay out the plan along with his threats so that there is no time for any of the union groups to "fight". It's going to be "we need it NOW or else". Again, everyone will be in "fear" mode and the vote will end up in favor of consessions once again and when those consessions kick in everyone will be crying "why did I vote yes?".

What Dave should have done is go to the employees, the ones that are on the front line day in and day out, for cost saving ideas and try them. We see what goes on every day and have the most contact with passengers. We know where the problems lie and where a lot of the waste is. Dave and all the other upper management do not have a clue of what really goes on in the "front lines". As a matter of fact, our dept. managers have no clue. I'm sure every work group could shed some light for Dave and save this company a bundle if only they would have brains enough to listen. Granted we need money but they also need to bring back happy content employees and passengers. No amount of money is going to help this company if the atmosphere is not changed quickly.

The reservation dept. is where it all starts. No sold tickets no passengers. I know, the interent is out there but, if you work in this dept, you know that the internet causes more problems than it's worth. But, that's a whole other issue. Our dept. is so mismanaged and disorganized it's pathetic! I have an intensive business management background but, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that our dept. is quite inefficient and not selling or giving customer service to our best ability. First of all they move us around like a bunch of cattle until our heads are spinning. One day we're in this building the next in another building, your job is selling tkts on Mon., Wed. I think you'll just reissue tkts and we'll train you for two days on how to reissue those tks (reissue training was 5 wks), Thurs we'll put you on the Dividend Miles desk (surprise! No training! Just Wing it!)(don't forget it's about an hour or more hold time if you want to attempt to obtain a DM ticket). It just goes on and on. No one knows what the heck they're doing. No one knows how to do their job correctly. This all goes on while there are 150 res calls on hold, 120 reissue calls on hold and god knows how many DM calls are on hold. What is the result... by the time a potential passenger gets through to someone they are soooo PO'ed about the hold time (sometimes snoring, no lie!) that the call immediately starts off on the wrong foot. Tthen they may have to deal with someone that is not quite qualified to handle their call because they have been handling General Res calls for 25 yrs and today they have to reissue a tkt which they really have no clue of how to do. So, now the person was on hold for 35 min., they have an untrained agent who now has to put them on hold for 10 minutes more to look up rules on the "40" fares that are in that market then they go back to the passenger to tell them what they can and can't do (which may be right or wrong), then if the passenger says they want to make the change the agent then puts them on hold for another 10 min. while they call the Help Desk to show them how to do it. GREAT customer service! That person will definately call us the next time they need to travel. The whole dept. is really a joke. When I first started everyone had a particular job and was well trained in that position. Everyone knew their job inside and out and was very efficient. We had great customer service then. We were pretty much happy and the passengers were pretty much happy. As they say "it's better to know everything about one thing than to know a tiny bit about a lot of things". Some how management thought that instead of having specialized depts. it would be more efficient to have everyone do a bit of everything with little or no training. We now have an exceptionally high call volume and hold time, due mostly to inefficent workers through no fault of their own and rediculous rules and fares. It's terrible to have to go to work and not feel comfortable with what you're doing because you have no clue of what you're doing aaaand being watched like a hawk. How many of those people on hold hang up? Much lost revenue! This dept. is an absolute horror. The agents are foul and the passengers are foul. I'm sure we look and sound like a bunch of buffoons. Specialized efficient employees is the key to more revenue and great customer service.

The next issue is fares. Again, when I started, the fares were pretty much easy to handle. There were the Sat. night stay, week-end, holiday, off peak and peak fares. It is totally out of control now. I've seen markets with 40 different fares and with totally rediculous requirements. One of the best is the 7/7 fare. You must stay for max 7 days but no less than 7 days. There are also the ones that are only valid from 759 am to 12n but, we have no flights during that time frame. There are people that call and say here are my cities, what are the lowest fares and what do I have to do to get them. So we look up the lowest fares and the rules and tell the customer and they die laughing or just get so frustrated they hang up especially when we tell them we have no scheduled flights during that time. Again we look like a bunch of idiots! Myself, co-workers and passengers would really like to know what drugs these people are on that design these fares. The fare rules, rates and number of ridiculous fares needs to change. Agents and passengers are confused and frustrated. The more fares and idiotic rules that go along with them, the more time spent on each call with most likely no sale or a sale with that passenger never to come back, while other potential passengers are sick of holding, hang up and call another airline.

This airline has put quite an effort into alienating passengers. When I first started we really did have great customer service. They liked us. I maybe had one irate a day, which was good considering I reissued tickets which consists of telling a passenger how much MORE they will have to pay to change their tkt. Basically they would say yes or no, go on to the next call. The atmosphere has completely changed. I would say about 60% of the calls are now irate or on the verge. There are arguments between passengers and agents every minute of the day. I can honestly say there is not one minute of a shift that I don't hear multiple arguments. The arguments are about anything and everything. A lot of these arguments escalate to Customer Service, Management and then Consumer Affairs. What a waste of time and energy. Most of this is due to the forever changing ticket rules. We don't know from day to day what the tkt rules are so how are our passengers to keep up with them. The rules have changed so many times in the last two years that when someone calls with an old tkt we again have to take time to look up validity and rules. Again precious time lost to sell and service our customers. The process of buying a tkt and actually flying is confusing and out of control. It's total chaos! Make the rules and stick with them!

It's a given that Dave and all upper management need to adjust as we have to save money. But, they also need to look into the lower management. We have management (above our immediate managers) that we in our dept. have no clue of what they do. We have a manager that is one of the heads of the dept. and NO one knows what this person does or what his job description is. It has been rumored this sup. makes in the 70's and is basically a "suit". For years we've seen this person walk around with a drill looking for things...to drill. This may seem trivial but, a while ago the sup. came up with a project, and I'm sure the company paid for it, they bought all of these huge golf umbrellas and the "drill" sup. turned them all upside down attaching them to the ceiling covering all the air vents. We had little circulating air before and after that we had none. Well a few months ago OSHA came in and had management take them alll down or get fined. Wasted money, time and effort! I know it doesn't sound like much but how much more of this small waste is going on in this company which in the long run can add up. Well, the story gets better. This particular sup. is now assigned to "food patrol"! This sup is now on an evening shift and all night long he walks up and down the aisles continually looking for the "forbidden" food at our positions. The sup. has gone so far as to ask agents to open up their mouth to see if they are eating and taps on food and asks "what's this?" while agents are on calls trying to generate revenue. It's rediculous. What a waste again of money, time and energy. If it goes on here it goes on everywhere. Anyone would surely like to make the big bucks and be on "food patrol".

The bottom line is this company needs to cut the "fat" and leave the hard working employees alone this time. They need to simplify the system so as to make traveling easier and more pleasant for the passengers and employees. They need to listen to the employees ideas on cutting costs and let us do our jobs and give us the training and tools to do that job. Stop with the petty work rules and blatant waste. We know what makes us happy and what makes our passengers happy. I'm sure that every single work group has many great cost cutting ideas that could be implemented quickly and easily. It may be too late for that, because as I said before, Dave is waiting until the last minute to drop the bomb.

I don't know about the other work groups but, ours has nothing else to give. Most of us are adamant about it now but, when push comes to shove and all the threats are made, Dave may get his way by bullying once again. There are just too many senior agents up there in age that are terrified. I know that each person needs to make their own decision for their own personal reasons. I think we need to stand and fight this time. There are other solutions than employee concessions, AGAIN! Possibly with the same outcome as the other two times.


The company also gives away tons of revenue. They need to get the money and then KEEP it. In the beginning it was told to us that the Reissue Dept., which was very small, was generating over a million dollars a day. Wonderful! But, no one was collecting it at the airport. Day after day passengers were boarded without paying. The passengers knew the system. All they had to do was say they would pay at the airport, knowing that 90% of the time they would get by at the airport without paying. Much lost revenue! The system has since been changed but the problem does still exist. Another monster that this company has created, that causes much loss, is the passenger that wants fees waived or fares that were there last week but no longer exist and waivers due to the other monster "USAirways.com". Our passengers know that if they want something waived, all they have to do is ask for a supervisor and the world is theirs. We have rules for a reason and they need to be implemented. They are there to obtain revenue and then KEEP it. Again, so much time and energy is wasted on arguing with people over why they have to pay a change fee and add/col and why it can't be waived (we do have a no waiver policy). That is our job to make sure that all involved stick to the rules and restrictions. So we try and do our job then have to transfer an unbelievably rediculous passenger to a so called "supervisor" just to have them undermine us and give them anything they want. It happens time and time again and the passengers know this and spread the word. If you want something waived just ask for a supervisor. You just wouldn't believe the waivers that are given for no good reason. It could be just for the simple fact that it's time for the "supervisor's" break or time to puch out for the day. Granted there are times that a waiver should be given, but there needs to be strict guidelines for waivers and they should apply at all times in a given situation that falls within those guidelines. Passengers know and play the game and in most instances they win and again we lose revenue. Again, we look like idiots.

I know a lot of people will disagree but, my opinion is we should not go easily this time. Dave is just like our passengers. He knows the game and how to make us roll over, like the other 2 times, and he is going to play the same game. I want this company to survive and thrive but not at my expense or my family's expense this time due to mismanagement. It is not our fault! We do our jobs everyday and have given more than enough concessions with no results. Management needs to fix it this time and does need to ask for help from us but not through more concessions. I'm sure every work group has many cost saving ideas that they can lay on the table that are viable. There has to be a way to get them to the top. If the company doesn't make it at least everyone won't be kicking themselves in the butt and saying "why did I give more?" to end up in the same boat. Everyone will survive. I know some positions are not as easily obtained elsewhere as others, which I do sympathize but, you will survive and most likely go on to bigger and better things. It is scary but it will happen. I've been in this position before where the company I worked for closed. I cried and went through major depression and could see no light at the end of the tunnel. Something always ended up coming along which ended up being bigger and better and I survived. It will be harder for some but for others there is a whole world out there waiting for them. I know a lot of agents and f/a who for the past two years have been preparing themselves for the end of US. They have been scoping the want ads, getting out resumes, going to school and starting their own businesses or business plans in the event US shuts down. Those are definately the ones that will survive. I have no sympathy for some of my co-workers who have been crying the "what will I do blues" for the last 2 1/2 years. They have known for as long that US is in trouble and have done nothing to protect themselves or their families. We all need to grow up and do what it takes and I don't mean rolling over for Dave. If everyone thinks morale is bad now what do you think it's going to be like if we're doing the same job in the same conditions or worse for less compensation and less "off" time. More concessions are not going to cure the condition it is going to make it worse! There needs to be some major cuts from upper management and lower management and major departmental changes to gain more revenue and efficiency.

As I said before, everyone has to make their own decision based on their own circumstances and I do respect that. I just hope that 8 months or so from now, after we give up more, that we're not all hanging our heads in shame wondering why we played Dave's game again for the third time and nothing changed. There are other ways!

If anyone has read this, thank you for letting me vent!

 

[BoeingBoy]

bobcat,

Whew, you have been saving up for a while!!

Thanks for your post and don't wait so long next time. I'm sure there'll be those that agree and those that disagree with some or all of what you said, but I appreciate your obvious sincerity.

Jim

 

[PITbull]

Bobcat,

Welcome on these boards.
Your post was so well written. Thank you for the insight in the Res. Dept.

I won't forget it. Hopefully AFA will be able to pose some of these questions to Bronner. It all makes sense, and no matter what, all groups suffer when any dept has huge inefficiencies. And unfortunately they are in all depts. Bottom line, is labor has to then subsidize the losses in revenue with more and more concessions.

You are correct, training is everything and the more simple you make it, the more efficient the dept becomes.

 

[diogenes]

bobcat,

welcome to the boards.

very well said, and as a former customer service agent, I could not agree more with your assessment.

also agree, but hope we're both wrong, with your assessment of the agent 'unions'.

they're all about the dues structure.

if agents will read their 99 agreements closely, a good many will see they were sold out in 99.

 

[savyinvestor]

Pitbull, I would just like to wish you and the AFA all the best in your struggle. Same goes for the IAM. As for the pilots I wish them the best too and hope that the majority of them are like BoeingBoy and not ....[well you know who I mean!] All the best, Savy

 

[A320 Driver]

I started to make a statement, but decided that it likely wouldn't change a thing so...nevermind!


A320 Driver :unsure:

 

[usfliboi]

I started to make a statement, but decided that it likely wouldn't change a thing so...nevermind!


A320 Driver :unsure:

On this board your about right. SAME OLE SAME OLE WE WONT GIVE AND END UP GIVING.......

 

[usfliboi]

Well usfliboy, and I doubt you are who you pretend to be.......Fact #1 My paycheck is much lighter than it used to be, Fact #2 During the initial give back request Dave said that was what he needed to save the company, Fact #3 During the second give back request Dave said that was all he need to save the company, Fact #4 Dave once again is back after saying he would not be........Just how much are you willing to give back to? What is you limit? 20,30 40 % or what? Put a factual number in print.....

Another fact that is now airline history.........many carriers gave and gave and after all the giving the companies still went belly up and guess what the executives made out and the rest of the employee's got ********

Just one persons opinion and I am "confused" :huh:

Frankly i dont care who u think i am . My opinion hasnt changed and trust me i know what im saying. Ive been here uite sometime ! Long enough to know who is who and who the aint givin ever crowd is! !

 

[700UW]

And long enough never to answer the questions poised you when you are proven wrong!

 

[ClueByFour]

In my opinion, the Flight Attendants will come to the table. However, if they do not they could see some painful changes implemented with "me too" clauses, pension termination, and significant grievance issues.

Moreover, there is not much the AFA will be able to do to stop the process.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

I am constantly amazed. I am now quite convinced that various U ALPA members would see their parents to keep a seat.

Perhaps, if ALPA stopped the practice of selling off/out everybody but the top %51 of the voting seniority list, the other unions, the WO ALPAs, and the furloughed guys would have a chance to maek some headway.

March 1 is quickly approaching. WHat makes you think the new (not lame duck, as is the status quo) MEC is going to roll over like the current crop did?

 

[AP Tech]

Hey usfliboy, You failed to answer my question....how much are you willing to give ......20,30,40%??????? Come on....I could "Dave" asking......