Twicebaked
Veteran
- Joined
- May 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,788
- Reaction score
- 18
I believe there will be 2 airplanes delivered per month starting in Nov and continuing through 2006.ACrazy8 said:
Us Airways F/a Reductions
- Thread starter exusairways
- Start date
BostonTerrier
Advanced
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 0
If the company is going to reduce flight attendant head count due to the new reserve system, wouldn't that be a "trigger" event (reduction in personnel) that would require the company to offer another voluntary furlough offer?
BostonTerrier
Advanced
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 0
Okay, so I guess this is the latest poop (literally) from AFA as of 08SEP03:
VSIP and VF Extension Update As Of September 8
17 have applied for the voluntary separation package.
All 17 are currently not on active status.
740 have chosen to extend their voluntary furlough.
605 are currently scheduled to return December 2. Extension
deadline is September 11.
Well, the numbers are going down, but with the clock ticking I imagine that this is going to have a rather dismal effect on everyone's holiday season. I'm still simply in awe that the company shall try to pursue a course of "No Further Voluntary Furloughs" given the cumulative effects that the new contracts have had on flight attendant productivity, not to mention the new reserve system.
Some questions for those in the know:
1. What is the status of AFA contesting the "No Further Voluntary Furlough" stance of the company?
2. When can we expect a final "reserve" decision from binding arbitration?
2. When will CCY indicate the number of Involuntary Furloughs following the closing of the extention period, and will that include a reduction in force due to the new reserve system? Or should we expect to be back-slapped twice in the next few months? As Crazy states above, some people would like to prepare for the future in less than a few weeks.
3. Has a AFA representative been appointed to oversee the implentation of the MDA/MAA (which one is it really?) flight attendant system? If so, who? It seems that although the company has issues a rather cryptic Q&A, it has actually caused more confusion than understanding. If we are only going to get "one bite at the apple" the flight attendant population really needs to be thoroughly briefed on the ins-and-outs of the AE contract. I've spent the afternoon studying the .pdf and am scratching my head in confusion as to a number of issues.
4. Likewise, who is the designated authority at CCY overseeing the implementation of the flight attendant system for MDA/MAA?
Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
VSIP and VF Extension Update As Of September 8
17 have applied for the voluntary separation package.
All 17 are currently not on active status.
740 have chosen to extend their voluntary furlough.
605 are currently scheduled to return December 2. Extension
deadline is September 11.
Well, the numbers are going down, but with the clock ticking I imagine that this is going to have a rather dismal effect on everyone's holiday season. I'm still simply in awe that the company shall try to pursue a course of "No Further Voluntary Furloughs" given the cumulative effects that the new contracts have had on flight attendant productivity, not to mention the new reserve system.
Some questions for those in the know:
1. What is the status of AFA contesting the "No Further Voluntary Furlough" stance of the company?
2. When can we expect a final "reserve" decision from binding arbitration?
2. When will CCY indicate the number of Involuntary Furloughs following the closing of the extention period, and will that include a reduction in force due to the new reserve system? Or should we expect to be back-slapped twice in the next few months? As Crazy states above, some people would like to prepare for the future in less than a few weeks.
3. Has a AFA representative been appointed to oversee the implentation of the MDA/MAA (which one is it really?) flight attendant system? If so, who? It seems that although the company has issues a rather cryptic Q&A, it has actually caused more confusion than understanding. If we are only going to get "one bite at the apple" the flight attendant population really needs to be thoroughly briefed on the ins-and-outs of the AE contract. I've spent the afternoon studying the .pdf and am scratching my head in confusion as to a number of issues.
4. Likewise, who is the designated authority at CCY overseeing the implementation of the flight attendant system for MDA/MAA?
Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
Boston,
Below are some of the questions are will attempt to answer:
Some questions for those in the know:
1. What is the status of AFA contesting the "No Further Voluntary Furlough" stance of the company?
Answer: Grievance has been filed. No expedited arbitration scheduled, management won't sign on. Regurlar arbitration will take months.
2. When can we expect a final "reserve" decision from binding arbitration?
Answer: Mediation opinion will be handed down this week, however if it goes to arbitration, it will be ]Many months
2. When will CCY indicate the number of Involuntary Furloughs following the closing of the extention period, and will that include a reduction in force due to the new reserve system? Or should we expect to be back-slapped twice in the next few months? As Crazy states above, some people would like to prepare for the future in less than a few weeks.
Answer: When the extension closes, which is Sept 11, the company will notify us on an Excel sheet who will be INvolutarily furloughed for Dec. How much or IF the Reserve reduction is included is anyones guess. If the further reduce for the reserve system THAT GOES AGAINST THERE STANCE THAT THEY HAVE MET THEIR OBLIGATION, CAUSE THAT WILL TRIGGER A NEW AND FURTHER REDUCTION IMO and the MEC. Expect a back-slap twice in the next few months...we are talking union busters here, folks that disregard employees and look at them a complete liabilities to a corporation's "bottom line".
3. Has a AFA representative been appointed to oversee the implentation of the MDA/MAA (which one is it really?) flight attendant system? If so, who? It seems that although the company has issues a rather cryptic Q&A, it has actually caused more confusion than understanding. If we are only going to get "one bite at the apple" the flight attendant population really needs to be thoroughly briefed on the ins-and-outs of the AE contract. I've spent the afternoon studying the .pdf and am scratching my head in confusion as to a number of issues.
Answer: No. AFA International President Pat Friend is trying to pull the MAA flight attendants under EXPRESS. The MEC is arguing this and it will be presented at the AFA BOD in the form of an Agenda Item. The MEC believes that the MAA f/as belong to us. Period. We will fight this if it comes down to it. Another battle.
So far, there are no further dialogue with any info. I can offer at this time. Most of this information should be disiminated from management first. The MEC is not the mouth pieces for management. You will get the info as the MEC receives it. Rest Assured.
4. Likewise, who is the designated authority at CCY overseeing the implementation of the flight attendant system for MDA/MAA?
Answser: Sharon Godden, Senior Director of Inflight at MAA. John Flasco Manager of Training.
Below are some of the questions are will attempt to answer:
Some questions for those in the know:
1. What is the status of AFA contesting the "No Further Voluntary Furlough" stance of the company?
Answer: Grievance has been filed. No expedited arbitration scheduled, management won't sign on. Regurlar arbitration will take months.
2. When can we expect a final "reserve" decision from binding arbitration?
Answer: Mediation opinion will be handed down this week, however if it goes to arbitration, it will be ]Many months
2. When will CCY indicate the number of Involuntary Furloughs following the closing of the extention period, and will that include a reduction in force due to the new reserve system? Or should we expect to be back-slapped twice in the next few months? As Crazy states above, some people would like to prepare for the future in less than a few weeks.
Answer: When the extension closes, which is Sept 11, the company will notify us on an Excel sheet who will be INvolutarily furloughed for Dec. How much or IF the Reserve reduction is included is anyones guess. If the further reduce for the reserve system THAT GOES AGAINST THERE STANCE THAT THEY HAVE MET THEIR OBLIGATION, CAUSE THAT WILL TRIGGER A NEW AND FURTHER REDUCTION IMO and the MEC. Expect a back-slap twice in the next few months...we are talking union busters here, folks that disregard employees and look at them a complete liabilities to a corporation's "bottom line".
3. Has a AFA representative been appointed to oversee the implentation of the MDA/MAA (which one is it really?) flight attendant system? If so, who? It seems that although the company has issues a rather cryptic Q&A, it has actually caused more confusion than understanding. If we are only going to get "one bite at the apple" the flight attendant population really needs to be thoroughly briefed on the ins-and-outs of the AE contract. I've spent the afternoon studying the .pdf and am scratching my head in confusion as to a number of issues.
Answer: No. AFA International President Pat Friend is trying to pull the MAA flight attendants under EXPRESS. The MEC is arguing this and it will be presented at the AFA BOD in the form of an Agenda Item. The MEC believes that the MAA f/as belong to us. Period. We will fight this if it comes down to it. Another battle.
So far, there are no further dialogue with any info. I can offer at this time. Most of this information should be disiminated from management first. The MEC is not the mouth pieces for management. You will get the info as the MEC receives it. Rest Assured.
4. Likewise, who is the designated authority at CCY overseeing the implementation of the flight attendant system for MDA/MAA?
Answser: Sharon Godden, Senior Director of Inflight at MAA. John Flasco Manager of Training.
BostonTerrier
Advanced
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 0
THANKS PITbull!
Although I'm not thrilled with the answers, I certainly appreciate them.
Although I'm not thrilled with the answers, I certainly appreciate them.
Twicebaked
Veteran
- Joined
- May 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,788
- Reaction score
- 18
Pitbull,
Regarding who "gets" the furloughed flight attendants wouldn't one think that they would go to mainline?
As I read somewhere on here they aren't even putting express on the planes so why would we be represented as an "express".
Transitioning would be soooo much smoother coming from the same leadership.
Just my $.02. (what's left of my pay after bills) 🙂
Regarding who "gets" the furloughed flight attendants wouldn't one think that they would go to mainline?
As I read somewhere on here they aren't even putting express on the planes so why would we be represented as an "express".
Transitioning would be soooo much smoother coming from the same leadership.
Just my $.02. (what's left of my pay after bills) 🙂
Light Years
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2002
- Messages
- 2,878
- Reaction score
- 0
PITbull,
Is there any sort of letter-writing campaign etc we can send to Pat Friend regarding that issue? After all of the mainliners have had thier chance at MDA and U needs to hire off the street, those new hires would theoretically be under the same contract as the furloughees- giving new hires flow thru?!? Also, the AE contract of course has no specifics as to mainline recall, seniority accrual etc, so obviously there will have to be some changes to replace AMR language with U's... the contract currently has alot of AE specific stuff regarding domiciles etc.
As I've said before, the company seems to like to call it a "division of mainline" at some times and then treat it as a totally different entity Express carrier at others... it would seem pretty obvious if the workforce is already techinically covered by the mainline contract in some aspects (recall), that mainline leadership would implement it? Its really a shame we're not getting the support of the Intl President on this one.
I think mgmt's general tactic is vagueness and confusion of the work group... they'd rather have more gullible, $14 new hires than the loyal junior work force they've tossed out.
Is there any sort of letter-writing campaign etc we can send to Pat Friend regarding that issue? After all of the mainliners have had thier chance at MDA and U needs to hire off the street, those new hires would theoretically be under the same contract as the furloughees- giving new hires flow thru?!? Also, the AE contract of course has no specifics as to mainline recall, seniority accrual etc, so obviously there will have to be some changes to replace AMR language with U's... the contract currently has alot of AE specific stuff regarding domiciles etc.
As I've said before, the company seems to like to call it a "division of mainline" at some times and then treat it as a totally different entity Express carrier at others... it would seem pretty obvious if the workforce is already techinically covered by the mainline contract in some aspects (recall), that mainline leadership would implement it? Its really a shame we're not getting the support of the Intl President on this one.
I think mgmt's general tactic is vagueness and confusion of the work group... they'd rather have more gullible, $14 new hires than the loyal junior work force they've tossed out.
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
Light years,
Letter writing is good. Round up the troops. Tell her that if she wants AFA to stay on the property, then you guys belong to USA MEC. Let her know how you feel, and that you voted in the concessions under that premise.
THE AFA MEC has no confusion on this issue. They are OUR people. The furloughees have flow through rights to mainline...express does not. If U happens to hire off the street in time....then that is those hirees "gateway" to mainline. Unlike Express.
Then if in time Express joins in with Mid Atlantic, then they would flow through AFTER our furloughees.
The question from the AFA International was how would U MEC adminster the AE contract, ANSWER: Same way we do ours, same way we did Shuttle, same way we did Metro Jet, same way we did Nordair in the late 70s. We learn it and administer it.... The MAA f/as are in mainline's collective bargaining. We ratified the agreements BOTH times, has the same amendable date, and those f/as belong to us!
Management is probably licking their chops praying that the AFA PIT President isn't their President. FAT CHANCE Suckers! "Eat s- - - and d- -"!
WE ARE IT!
Letter writing is good. Round up the troops. Tell her that if she wants AFA to stay on the property, then you guys belong to USA MEC. Let her know how you feel, and that you voted in the concessions under that premise.
THE AFA MEC has no confusion on this issue. They are OUR people. The furloughees have flow through rights to mainline...express does not. If U happens to hire off the street in time....then that is those hirees "gateway" to mainline. Unlike Express.
Then if in time Express joins in with Mid Atlantic, then they would flow through AFTER our furloughees.
The question from the AFA International was how would U MEC adminster the AE contract, ANSWER: Same way we do ours, same way we did Shuttle, same way we did Metro Jet, same way we did Nordair in the late 70s. We learn it and administer it.... The MAA f/as are in mainline's collective bargaining. We ratified the agreements BOTH times, has the same amendable date, and those f/as belong to us!
Management is probably licking their chops praying that the AFA PIT President isn't their President. FAT CHANCE Suckers! "Eat s- - - and d- -"!
WE ARE IT!
Dilligas
Veteran
PB... one minor correction...PITbull said:
"sushi" has five letters, not four
"diet" has four letters, not three.
Otherwise, excellent post. 😉
Does anyone know how I can find out how many fa/s are active and who is on inactive status and their senority? I understand we find out Thursday night/Friday morning the senority that will be affected DEC 1st. with the upcoming layoffs. Just trying to find where approx. 500-700 furloughs(new reserve system layoff included) puts us. ie. Hire date FEB 98?.......Anyone have an educated guess what hire date it would hit, if the number would be 600 "active" fa/s that were let go...?????? This waiting game is killing me........ :unsure:
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
Bob,
Very true indeed.
I look at an airline corporation like a triangle....employees/labor are the base and the the one angle being customers and the other, being management....shatter the base and the two sides fall in and collapse.
Very true indeed.
I look at an airline corporation like a triangle....employees/labor are the base and the the one angle being customers and the other, being management....shatter the base and the two sides fall in and collapse.
exusairways
Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 42
- Reaction score
- 0
🙁 🙁 🙁
ACrazy8,
Using the most recent number of 605 flight attendants returning in December, my calculation indicates that the most senior person to be involuntarily furloughed will be from the class of January 1998. This would equate to approximately 1250 involuntary furloughs (taking into account those already on a voluntary furlough between that flight attendant and the most junior flight attendant in the system). This does NOT include the additional furloughs as a result of the new reserve system. I would caution, however, that this is a crude calculation, since the seniority list made available to us online does not indicate who on the list is already on a voluntary furlough, and that the result of the calculation is based on reserve lists and block bid awards. Therefore, this result may vary by one or two classes.
If we factor in an additional 200 furloughs as a result of the new reserve system, those with a seniority date of March or May of 1997 could POTENTIALLY be in danger of being furloughed.
Hope this helps.
ACrazy8,
Using the most recent number of 605 flight attendants returning in December, my calculation indicates that the most senior person to be involuntarily furloughed will be from the class of January 1998. This would equate to approximately 1250 involuntary furloughs (taking into account those already on a voluntary furlough between that flight attendant and the most junior flight attendant in the system). This does NOT include the additional furloughs as a result of the new reserve system. I would caution, however, that this is a crude calculation, since the seniority list made available to us online does not indicate who on the list is already on a voluntary furlough, and that the result of the calculation is based on reserve lists and block bid awards. Therefore, this result may vary by one or two classes.
If we factor in an additional 200 furloughs as a result of the new reserve system, those with a seniority date of March or May of 1997 could POTENTIALLY be in danger of being furloughed.
Hope this helps.
BostonTerrier
Advanced
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 0
I hate to play this game of fuzzy math, but my calculations are essentially the same in a worse-case scenario.
Best to all.
Hope I can manage some sleep over the next couple of nights.
Thanks Dave, Jerry, and Mrs. Hendry-Groff
Best to all.
Hope I can manage some sleep over the next couple of nights.
Thanks Dave, Jerry, and Mrs. Hendry-Groff
