Us Airways Ends With You

nycbusdriver said:
I believe America West also survived two bankruptcies, and now they are a force to be reckoned with.
[post="179500"][/post]​
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One.
 
EyeInTheSky said:
You've gone to stating the article is "factually incorrect" to "misleading." MrAeroMan you're always preaching about 'facts' on this forum, so why can't you take factual criticism of the company? I am not trying to be a jerk for asking this. I am just trying to understand your see-saw here. Is this a CCY thing?
[post="179508"][/post]​
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It's not a see-saw at all. He misled and he was also factually incorrect. He neglected to put pertinent information in the article creating the falsehood as well as misleading people about his points in the article. I outlined them previously. I've stated on here repeatedly that management has made tons of mistakes but my opinion isn't the popular one because I also place the blame on the oranized groups for their shortcomings. Many on here don't like that but it's what I believe and I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are yours.
The CCY thing is a joke....I got it! Ha ha.
 
NYC busdriver said: I believe America West also survived two bankruptcies, and now they are a force to be reckoned with.

DCAflyer replies: The profound difference between CO and UAIR, on the one hand, and HP and UAIR, on the other hand, is that in both CO's and HP's case, they were backed by the Texas Pacific Group (TPG). TPG has a proven track record of turning failing airlines around (Of course, Bethune had a great deal to do with CO's turnaround). U originally had TPG in its pack pocket before the idiot from Alabama decided he wanted to own an airline and outbid TPG (making it clear that he would up the ante if TPG raised its bid). Siegel initially said no to Alabama Dave, but the very next day changed his mind.

I maintain that if TPG had been our partner during round one, we would not be in the predicament we are in today. It is clear that Bronner doesn't know how to run an airline, doesn't know how to manage his executive staff, and doesn't know how to finesse the intricacies involved in unionized labor. I said two years ago that he is in way over his head, and I didn't even realize how much back then.

We had a chance two years ago... a big chance, in my opinion, of turning this ship around, and like him or not (which I don't because he has proven to be a big liar and an even bigger whimp) Siegel could very well have turned things around with the TPG partnership. Once Bronner hoarded his way into the board room things took a serious turn for the worst.

Remember Siegel saying we are trying to save 40,000 jobs. Then it turned to 35,000 jobs, then 30,000... now we're at what, 28,000 jobs that we're hearing hte company is trying to save, and everyone on the property making less money (significantly less) than two years ago, and still we are loosing bucket fulls of money and they are coming back for more.
 
PineyBob said:
This is Mr Elliott's writing style. I have talked to Chris at length and he is a very personalble guy and has been very kind to the Cockroaches and now FFOCUS.

I think Chris's assessment of the state of affairs is premature his points regarding who pays is interesting
[post="179707"][/post]​
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What are you tlking about????????????????? You make no sense to me. :unsure:
 
Even though CO did go through 2 bankruptcies I don't think is a valid comparision because at the time there was not as much market penetration by the LCCs.
 
DCAflyer said:
NYC busdriver said: I believe America West also survived two bankruptcies, and now they are a force to be reckoned with.

DCAflyer replies: The profound difference between CO and UAIR, on the one hand, and HP and UAIR, on the other hand, is that in both CO's and HP's case, they were backed by the Texas Pacific Group (TPG). TPG has a proven track record of turning failing airlines around (Of course, Bethune had a great deal to do with CO's turnaround). U originally had TPG in its pack pocket before the idiot from Alabama decided he wanted to own an airline and outbid TPG (making it clear that he would up the ante if TPG raised its bid). Siegel initially said no to Alabama Dave, but the very next day changed his mind.

I
[post="179545"][/post]​
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In the case of HP, TPG is the defacto private owner of a public company by virtue of owning a majority of the voting shares of stock. They have not been willing to make significant investment to capitalize on HP's strengths. Their ownership structure makes it difficult for would-be investors who would like to take advantage of what HP offers: why take an equity stake in what they can never control?

The greatest economic expansion in history did more to buoy HP than TPG. They deserve credit for allowing HP to exist during that time, but little more. Unlike Neeleman and Kelleher, the folks at TPG are not builders. Employees who are forced to make concessions will get behind a builder with a clear vision, but so far in this industry, they're hard to come by.

Does US still fly any 737-200's? See my point?
 
AWA only had one bankruptcy thank god, as for Continental, they were seperated by some years and were pretty well managed, the first one basically was there to kill the unions (you could do that back then).

As for not trusting anything, how about Dan Rather wanting to believe so badly that he let his bias do the investigative work for him. :eek:

As for the US -200's, I saw a few ex Metrosexual Jets with the red paint flying for Phuket Air last year.
 
As much as I despised Franke and his arrogant ways, he did rescue AWA from the sheer madness of Ed Beauvais (how is that Project Roam going?) and Mike Conway (great job spending all that National money on company cars and country club memberships Mikey).

The reason AWA exists today and is fairly stable (relatively) is that they have been extremely conservative and cash conscious, like Alaska was 10-15 years ago. Don't spend what you don't have, don't stray from your strengths, don't do stupid things (like get 4 19 year old 747-200's on the anticipation that you will get awarded with routes to Sydney)

Slow and steady has been HP's strength for the last 5 years.
 
MrAeroMan said:
First off he says the employees willingly gave up the 1.9 billion dollars in concessions. Anyone that was there knows there was nothing willing about it. They were faced with giving or going belly up so it wasn't like they said here is 1.9 billion dollars for you just because we like you. The CWA vote only passed by five votes for crying out loud.
Secondly, he says the taxpayers are on the hook for the ATSB loans. While that is technically correct what he fails to say is those loans are backed by assets the company put up as collateral. He says the taxpayers will be out the money when that is not the case. If it goes to Chapter 7 liquidation then the ATSB loans will be repaid with proceeds from the sale of the collateralized assets.
Thirdly, he quotes a 264 million dollar figure given to UAIR by the feds. Again, technically that is true but a large part of that money was for reimbursements for security that was mandated by the feds and that is not mentioned in there anywhere.
Lastly he states that the taxpayers will be paying for it's complete failure to operate a competitive business. Again, partly true but only in as the part where the bailout money was given to airlines after 9/11. That money was not only given to UAIR, it was also given to every airline so what is his point?

Seems as though he's got a pretty dull axe to grind.
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Here's another number to ponder: $264 million. That's the amount of aid the federal government gave US Airways after the Sept. 11 attacks as compensation for "direct and incremental losses incurred," according to the airline. (True, US Airways made less money when Washington's airports were slow to re-open, but the airline didn't lose any planes on 9/11.)

The editorial statment above had to do with direct monies given to USAirways directly after 9/11 because of the shut-down of the DCA airport for almost 1 month. And the amout was $329 million; not $264... I have it in front of me from an article from 2001.

Also, Labor did not give up $1.9 Bil. That amount is including the vendors concession. U did get that total amount in "cost savings", but not all from labor.
$1.2 billion came just from labor combining both summer and winter concessions.

Just FYI....
 
mh2438 said:
Even though CO did go through 2 bankruptcies I don't think is a valid comparision because at the time there was not as much market penetration by the LCCs.
[post="179729"][/post]​
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Another difference between US and CAL is that there was a 7-8 year spread between the two CAL bankruptcies. Having to go back in BK within 24 months is a bit dicey.

Lindy
 
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