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Us Airways / America West Merger
- Thread starter deltawatch
- Start date
USA320Pilot said:
Wait a minute!!!!! I thought you said UAL was "shunned" by US. And now you say that your UCT/ICT predictions failed to happen because of some resistance from UAL? From the CEO no less? Hmmmmm if the big boss doesn't want merge, there usually is no merger. SO who "shunned" who?
And how many times did you predict that UAL would be in violation of those DIP requirements?
DC
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
AAviator said:
(now this is funny and should not be deleted by mods)
"Stunning" I say!
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
From the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" file:
Remember back in 2000 when AA was discussing buying NW? Only problem was the price - NW wanted about $100/sh and AA was willing to go maybe $60 - $70/sh.
If only Carty could have pulled that trigger (overspent to get NW) instead of overspending to get TWA the following year. Sigh. Oh, well.
I agree, NHBBs - an AA/NW combo would rule the world right now. Add AS to the mix and it looks even better. Could have dismantled the MEM hub*, downsized the MSP hub*, concentrated the NW activities at DTW and ORD and ruled the world.
*dismantling hubs is AA's strength; some say it's what AA does best.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
UALDC737:
USALDC737 said: Wait a minute!!!!! I thought you said UAL was "shunned" by US. And now you say that your UCT/ICT predictions failed to happen because of some resistance from UAL? From the CEO no less? Hmmmmm if the big boss doesn't want merge, there usually is no merger. SO who "shunned" who?
And how many times did you predict that UAL would be in violation of those DIP requirements?
USA320Pilot comments: It’s clear you have not followed the discussion. The UCT & ICT were under Stephen Wolf and Dave Siegel’s tenure and Glenn Tilton did not want to proceed. Why? It would have lead to the fragmentation of UA. In regard to US “shunning†UA that was under Bruce Lakefield’s tenure when the CEO selected HP instead of UA.
About two months ago senior executives meet in US Airways’ Crystal City offices and that’s when Lakefield rejected UA as an M&A partner.
In regard to UA not meeting its DIP financing requirements, I never predicted they would not make it. The company has been very creative in keeping its cahs balance and EBITDAR above requirements or obtaining waivers. However, the company is stillin trouble after today's April Monthly Operating Report, which is likely why Lakefield "shunned" UA for a better deal.
According to the AP United said it lost $124 million in April, citing higher fuel costs and bankruptcy reorganization expenses. UAL Corp., which reports results monthly to federal bankruptcy court, has lost more than $1.3 billion in the first four months of 2005 and $6 billion since entering Chapter 11 bankruptcy in December 2002.
See Story
Regardless, the industry is now in play and it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
USALDC737 said: Wait a minute!!!!! I thought you said UAL was "shunned" by US. And now you say that your UCT/ICT predictions failed to happen because of some resistance from UAL? From the CEO no less? Hmmmmm if the big boss doesn't want merge, there usually is no merger. SO who "shunned" who?
And how many times did you predict that UAL would be in violation of those DIP requirements?
USA320Pilot comments: It’s clear you have not followed the discussion. The UCT & ICT were under Stephen Wolf and Dave Siegel’s tenure and Glenn Tilton did not want to proceed. Why? It would have lead to the fragmentation of UA. In regard to US “shunning†UA that was under Bruce Lakefield’s tenure when the CEO selected HP instead of UA.
About two months ago senior executives meet in US Airways’ Crystal City offices and that’s when Lakefield rejected UA as an M&A partner.
In regard to UA not meeting its DIP financing requirements, I never predicted they would not make it. The company has been very creative in keeping its cahs balance and EBITDAR above requirements or obtaining waivers. However, the company is stillin trouble after today's April Monthly Operating Report, which is likely why Lakefield "shunned" UA for a better deal.
According to the AP United said it lost $124 million in April, citing higher fuel costs and bankruptcy reorganization expenses. UAL Corp., which reports results monthly to federal bankruptcy court, has lost more than $1.3 billion in the first four months of 2005 and $6 billion since entering Chapter 11 bankruptcy in December 2002.
See Story
Regardless, the industry is now in play and it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
USA320Pilot comments: It’s clear you have not followed the discussion. The UCT & ICT were under Stephen Wolf and Dave Siegel’s tenure and Glenn Tilton did not want to proceed. Why? It would have lead to the fragmentation of UA.
I think there is only one thing that is 'clear' at this point....
So let's get this straight. U, while BK was plotting to 'take over' UAL which was not. And U, with it's 'moneyman' from Alabama, could pull it off. and he would want U running the show despite exhibiting the inability to run an airline one third the size over the last 15 years.... Sure...yeah....right
Face it, had it not been for the greed of the likes of you, expecting more than you were entitled to, the merger would have happened. The "poison pill" pilot protection provisions were only implemented after a few vocal morons demanded Date of Hire. I even had one U pilot try to convince me he deserved 'super' seniority at UAL because he was at the front of that massive 1000 person hiring bnge in 1999
Face it, just about everything you've said in various places has proven wrong. I'm still waiting for that $5 billion lawsuit the efiminent Wolfie told you about during your closed door 'heart to heart' meetings.
As to meeting DIP, have you ever thought that meeting EBITAR restrictions are the straight forward thing, while reporting inflated expenses in BK is actually the 'creative' part? Ya think that's maybe why banks implement EBITAR restrictions instead of going by 'reported earnings'?
I've got a few hundred shares of Dell. while I don't have a credible source of funding and they'd never take a bid from me seriously, I think I'd like to take over. My "UTC" has as much credibility as yours.......
I think there is only one thing that is 'clear' at this point....
So let's get this straight. U, while BK was plotting to 'take over' UAL which was not. And U, with it's 'moneyman' from Alabama, could pull it off. and he would want U running the show despite exhibiting the inability to run an airline one third the size over the last 15 years.... Sure...yeah....right
Face it, had it not been for the greed of the likes of you, expecting more than you were entitled to, the merger would have happened. The "poison pill" pilot protection provisions were only implemented after a few vocal morons demanded Date of Hire. I even had one U pilot try to convince me he deserved 'super' seniority at UAL because he was at the front of that massive 1000 person hiring bnge in 1999
Face it, just about everything you've said in various places has proven wrong. I'm still waiting for that $5 billion lawsuit the efiminent Wolfie told you about during your closed door 'heart to heart' meetings.
As to meeting DIP, have you ever thought that meeting EBITAR restrictions are the straight forward thing, while reporting inflated expenses in BK is actually the 'creative' part? Ya think that's maybe why banks implement EBITAR restrictions instead of going by 'reported earnings'?
I've got a few hundred shares of Dell. while I don't have a credible source of funding and they'd never take a bid from me seriously, I think I'd like to take over. My "UTC" has as much credibility as yours.......
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
well it looks like a business week article is stating that alaska air now wants to buy awa
and let the merger proceed !
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...ndpost&p=274917
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
Busdrvr:
The UCT discussions were started by Stephen Wolf and then moved forward under Dave Siegel prior to US Airways’ first bankruptcy filing. The intent was to use ATSB monies and other financial transactions to fund the deal. US Airways was going to obtain certain United domestic assets so the Chicago-based airline could downsize some of its financial pressure and place some of its employees under US Airways’ new contracts to lower labor costs.
When Siegel was unable to get labor to cooperate and US Airways was unable to restructure outside of the courts, the UCT was put on the back burner because of the formal reorganization.
However, TPG and RSA saw the value of such a transaction and that lead to new talks that I called the ICT. The ICT was code worded “Project Minnow†by the companies and was reported in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette two weeks ago on May 22.
The newspaper reported according to people familiar with the events. America West was not the only carrier to express interest in US Airways, nor was America West the only partner US Airways pursued.
The search for a deal began in the fall of 2003, when David Siegel was still US Airways' chief executive officer. Chief executive officer. Siegel had led US Airways through its first bankruptcy and wrested more than $1 billion in concessions from the company's labor unions. But even as the carrier completed a painful round of cost cuts and emerged from bankruptcy, Siegel knew US Airways was still too small and too inefficient to compete against discounters such as Southwest, which had already announced plans to start service in Philadelphia, a US Airways' hub.
Siegel was convinced that for US Airways to avoid the fate of failed carriers such as Eastern Airlines and Pan Am, both of which liquidated in the 1980s, he would have to bring US Airways' costs down further and position the airline for consolidation with another carrier. He explored several options.
(The first option was to) acquire United Airlines, the nation's No. 2 carrier. That option was code-named "Project Minnow," with US Airways as the small fish gobbling the bigger one.
See Story
The “Project Minnow†funding was going to be provided by RSA and in four separate interviews David Bronner US Airways’ chairman of the board told the news media he was interested in buying United assets for US Airways. In fact, on February 7, 2003 the Charlotte Observer wrote Bronner speculated that United has a 50-50 chance of surviving a war (Iraqi War). He said that if United were to sell assets, he would consider backing the purchase of some "if it would be beneficial to US Airways."
In regard to your debate on seniority, unless something changes, it’s a moot point. In 1995 United ALPA wanted a pre-nuptial seniority list, wanted a no furlough clause for only United pilots, only US Airways pre-merger assets to be sold, and 1,000 US Airways pilots furloughed. In regard to greed, you suggest “had it not been for the greed of the likes of you, expecting more than you were entitled to, the merger would have happened. The "poison pill" pilot protection provisions were only implemented after a few vocal morons demanded Date of Hire.â€
Busdrvr, I suggest the United ALPA demands were about greed, which is why the year 2000 pre-nuptial proposal never made it into the US Airways “executive suiteâ€.
Regardless, the good news is that US Airways is distancing itself from Untied, who continues to bleed cash. United’s April Monthly Operating Report is abysmal during the peak travel season, which is why US Airways likely “shunned†United and selected America West for its M&A partner.
See Story
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
P.S. Busdrvir, what's your opinion of the Charlotte Observer interview with David Bronner, the comments made by US Airways' chairman of the board, and the Post-Gazettes comments regarding "Project Minnow"? Moreover, what's your opinion of United's April Monthly Operating Report during the busy travel season?
The UCT discussions were started by Stephen Wolf and then moved forward under Dave Siegel prior to US Airways’ first bankruptcy filing. The intent was to use ATSB monies and other financial transactions to fund the deal. US Airways was going to obtain certain United domestic assets so the Chicago-based airline could downsize some of its financial pressure and place some of its employees under US Airways’ new contracts to lower labor costs.
When Siegel was unable to get labor to cooperate and US Airways was unable to restructure outside of the courts, the UCT was put on the back burner because of the formal reorganization.
However, TPG and RSA saw the value of such a transaction and that lead to new talks that I called the ICT. The ICT was code worded “Project Minnow†by the companies and was reported in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette two weeks ago on May 22.
The newspaper reported according to people familiar with the events. America West was not the only carrier to express interest in US Airways, nor was America West the only partner US Airways pursued.
The search for a deal began in the fall of 2003, when David Siegel was still US Airways' chief executive officer. Chief executive officer. Siegel had led US Airways through its first bankruptcy and wrested more than $1 billion in concessions from the company's labor unions. But even as the carrier completed a painful round of cost cuts and emerged from bankruptcy, Siegel knew US Airways was still too small and too inefficient to compete against discounters such as Southwest, which had already announced plans to start service in Philadelphia, a US Airways' hub.
Siegel was convinced that for US Airways to avoid the fate of failed carriers such as Eastern Airlines and Pan Am, both of which liquidated in the 1980s, he would have to bring US Airways' costs down further and position the airline for consolidation with another carrier. He explored several options.
(The first option was to) acquire United Airlines, the nation's No. 2 carrier. That option was code-named "Project Minnow," with US Airways as the small fish gobbling the bigger one.
See Story
The “Project Minnow†funding was going to be provided by RSA and in four separate interviews David Bronner US Airways’ chairman of the board told the news media he was interested in buying United assets for US Airways. In fact, on February 7, 2003 the Charlotte Observer wrote Bronner speculated that United has a 50-50 chance of surviving a war (Iraqi War). He said that if United were to sell assets, he would consider backing the purchase of some "if it would be beneficial to US Airways."
In regard to your debate on seniority, unless something changes, it’s a moot point. In 1995 United ALPA wanted a pre-nuptial seniority list, wanted a no furlough clause for only United pilots, only US Airways pre-merger assets to be sold, and 1,000 US Airways pilots furloughed. In regard to greed, you suggest “had it not been for the greed of the likes of you, expecting more than you were entitled to, the merger would have happened. The "poison pill" pilot protection provisions were only implemented after a few vocal morons demanded Date of Hire.â€
Busdrvr, I suggest the United ALPA demands were about greed, which is why the year 2000 pre-nuptial proposal never made it into the US Airways “executive suiteâ€.
Regardless, the good news is that US Airways is distancing itself from Untied, who continues to bleed cash. United’s April Monthly Operating Report is abysmal during the peak travel season, which is why US Airways likely “shunned†United and selected America West for its M&A partner.
See Story
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
P.S. Busdrvir, what's your opinion of the Charlotte Observer interview with David Bronner, the comments made by US Airways' chairman of the board, and the Post-Gazettes comments regarding "Project Minnow"? Moreover, what's your opinion of United's April Monthly Operating Report during the busy travel season?
- Banned
- #30
That is strange Siegel told the media the reason they file bankruptcy the first time was the inability to restructure the a/c leases, never said it was because of the failure to reach deals with labor.
US Airways Press Release.
Once again, don't let facts get in your way.
.
US Airways Press Release.
Once again, don't let facts get in your way.
