US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman’s Message

[Richard]

Keep this one on subject and refrain from personal attacks, obscene remarks and attacking other work groups--we can close this one just as fast as we did the others.

There's plenty of room in the cornfield--as one or more of you already know..

We know this is an emotional subject, folks, but keep it civil.

 

[ussnark]

I think our guys were entitle to preserve their seniority, is that so hard to understand? The ratios should have started from the top with fences around the widebodies.

Seniority, as in, say, actual length of service? as in, say, date of hire?

or are you talking about relative length of service? If so, the only way you can talk relativity is for both groups to start with the same contract. Otherwise it is arbitrary, at best. and that is what apparently happened.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Whenever you figure out the difference between seniority and longevity (e.g. date of hire) that's when we can talk. You and most east pilots posting here continue to misunderstand the important differences between the two.

The Nic list preserves the coveted "Seniority" we all live by on a daily basis (e.g. bidding position, schedule, rank, etc.). Longevity was also indirectly preserved since all will continue to be paid based on longevity and not seniority, as always.

What does that mean to you? If you are a junior FO at US you are still a junior FO on the new list. However, a junior FO in the east will be paid significantly more than his/her equivalent position in the west because of significant differences in longevity.

Seniority, as in, say, actual length of service? as in, say, date of hire?

or are you talking about relative length of service? If so, the only way you can talk relativity is for both groups to start with the same contract. Otherwise it is arbitrary, at best. and that is what apparently happened.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Whenever you figure out the difference between seniority and longevity (e.g. date of hire) that's when we can talk. You and most east pilots posting here continue to misunderstand the important differences between the two.

The Nic list preserves the coveted "Seniority" we all live by on a daily basis (e.g. bidding position, schedule, rank, etc.). Longevity was also indirectly preserved since all will continue to be paid based on longevity and not seniority, as always.

What does that mean to you? If you are a junior FO at US you are still a junior FO on the new list. However, a junior FO in the east will be paid significantly more than his/her equivalent position in the west because of significant differences in longevity.

And if this BS is allowed to stand, every pilot within ALPA is subject to an extended period in their "current" position (in the event of industry consolidation). Regardless of the time they put in.

So you advocate a system that allows new entries to leap frog over long termers simply in the name of "relative seniority". Is that what you want?

 

[Cactus737]

Until they do, they will see little cooperation between themselves and the East pilot group.

They already have that, lol.

 

[Cactus737]

And if this BS is allowed to stand, every pilot within ALPA is subject to an extended period in their "current" position (in the event of industry consolidation). Regardless of the time they put in.

So you advocate a system that allows new entries to leap frog over long termers simply in the name of "relative seniority". Is that what you want?

First, longevity is irrelevant because it's not a tenet of ALPA Merger Policy.

Second, I'm sorry that 20 years at AAA puts you at the bottom of the list. It happened to the Pan Am guys - it could happen to me. That's management's fault - not Nicolau's. BTW - a few dozen of those "newbies" at AWA you speak of were 14-year TWA captains before they started over. The AWA Merger Committee Vice-Chairman is one of them.

Third, you weren't going to have access to any of your attrition pre-merger because you were going to be out of business. So now you have to share SOME of it.

Fourth, the AAA guys get all the money in the contract.

 

[EastUS]

First, longevity is irrelevant because it's not a tenet of ALPA Merger Policy.

Second, I'm sorry that 20 years at AAA puts you at the bottom of the list. It happened to the Pan Am guys - it could happen to me. That's management's fault - not Nicolau's. BTW - a few dozen of those "newbies" at AWA you speak of were 14-year TWA captains before they started over. The AWA Merger Committee Vice-Chairman is one of them.

Third, you weren't going to have access to any of your attrition pre-merger because you were going to be out of business. So now you have to share SOME of it.

Fourth, the AAA guys get all the money in the contract.

1)First, longevity is irrelevant because it's not a tenet of ALPA Merger Policy.

Well....It DOES seemingly count throughout most human experience though. I'm quite certain that you should then raise any/all children with that firmly in mind = never forget that your three month's old opinion is fully as valid as your own, and he/she should have equal "seniority"

2)"BTW - a few dozen of those "newbies" at AWA you speak of were 14-year TWA captains before they started over. The AWA Merger Committee Vice-Chairman is one of them."

WOW!!!...FOURTEEN WHOLE YEARS!!???.... You mean to state that people actually fly for that Looonnng?...I bow to the floor in proper awe

3)"Third, you weren't going to have access to any of your attrition pre-merger because you were going to be out of business. So now you have to share SOME of it."

Good luck implementing that I DO seriously chuckle at the evidenced contradiction = "your attrition pre-merger"...ummm..that was/is "YOUR attrition"?....you did say that?...right?..That would mean "attrition" that didn't/never would have/no way/no how have EVER benefitted the AWA crowd?....Am I ok with noting that? Again: "YOUR ATTRITION"?? OK...just checking. SO; The AWA "It's MINE I tell you!!...MINE, MINE, MINE!!!" is actually based upon something to be taken from the east?...and the "Argument" is essentially that it's morally "OK" to steal it...given the idea that it would have otherwise just gone to waste in financial failure?

Hmmm..sounds much akin to the following scenario: Man drops wallet...AWA guy steals it. He then returns pennies on the dollar, and self rightously notes that the wallet dropper should be greatfull for getting anything back...after all..someone else might have taken it and he'd have lost everything.

Remind me to never leave any credit cards or loose change around any of the AWA stations

 

[prechilill]

Remind me to never leave any credit cards or loose change around any of the AWA stations

I don't need to worry about picking up loose change from an FO... since I am about to be a 757 captain!

 

[CV580ETOPS]

I don't need to worry about picking up loose change from an FO... since I am about to be a 757 captain!

Gee no quick witty response from that aviation diety,USEast.All hail the mighty aviator, USEast and his 3200 minions. All hail!

[

 

[Hawkhunter]

I don't need to worry about picking up loose change from an FO... since I am about to be a 757 captain!

But AWA320 says there is no movement on the West side because of the merger! Great airplane.

 

[AWA320]

But AWA320 says there is no movement on the West side because of the merger! Great airplane.

Now ask him when the last bid came out? This is long over due and not even a ripple in the pond as compared to the movement on the east!! We slowed to a crawl as a result of the merger.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Now ask him when the last bid came out? This is long over due and not even a ripple in the pond as compared to the movement on the east!! We slowed to a crawl as a result of the merger.

Most of our "movement" is due to retirements not growth. Now you know why we want to protect OUR attrition from YOUR windfall.

 

[AWA320]

Most of our "movement" is due to retirements not growth. Now you know why we want to protect OUR attrition from YOUR windfall.

There you go again with that IMAGINARY windfall mess. Tell us that after we see the added wait time to our upgrades. Jr is Jr hawk and that's where prior and that's where you belong after. None of us see this IMAGINARY windfall you keep claiming yet we all see the opposite and now add age 65 yeah I see the windfall now, not :wacko:

 

[EastUS]

I don't need to worry about picking up loose change from an FO... since I am about to be a 757 captain!

Congrats. 75/76's are great planes.

Whilst not "an FO"...I'm still not about to leave any unguarded wallet, or ANY valuables around any AWA station

 

[Bud8EE]

There you go again with that IMAGINARY windfall mess. Tell us that after we see the added wait time to our upgrades. Jr is Jr hawk and that's where prior and that's where you belong after. None of us see this IMAGINARY windfall you keep claiming yet we all see the opposite and now add age 65 yeah I see the windfall now, not :wacko:

Where are the vacancies on the East side coming? The East side, hmmm......

Any career expectation built on anything other than retirements is complete foolishness. You can take any airline out there and some portion of the pilot group was told in Indoc they would be Captains in 2,3, or some number of years. An airline cannot guarantee growth anymore than psychic can guarantee the future. Attrition is the only certainty, because Father time catches up to everyone.